Another bit of possible foreshadowing

[forumghost]

Sounds like a confirmation to me "Death is a spectrum, not a line" ie: You were dead, but dead doesn't work how you thought so you could come back.

[wardenferry419]

I agree that, in the Dresdenverse, Death is a spectrum. Curious question, what would represent the polar ends? As in, what is most alive and what is most dead?

[Fcrate]

Sounds like a confirmation to me "Death is a spectrum, not a line" ie: You were dead, but dead doesn't work how you thought so you could come back.

The way I understood that quote was that "We all lie somewhere on the spectrum of death. Dresden came close to the end, but not close enough that Mab couldn't bring him back to the norm." i.e: He didn't really die.

[morriswalters]

There is no internally consistent answer to that in the Dresdenverse.  Other than to say that your dead when JB says you are.  JB is selling the idea that what makes you, you, is separate from the body.  So are we talking about the death of the body or the death of the soul?

For Harry, obviously his body didn't decompose, which is an indicator that it didn't die.  And in point of fact it was healed.  That is, he no longer has a chest wound, when he awakes in the well.  And if you believe the timeline he didn't leave his body until it was healed.  How much time elapsed before he woke in Chicago over Chicago?

I'll grant you that is a long time to heal, but JB needed that time.  It might have been more fun if JB had played with an alternate timeline  where Harry's death was final.  Kinda like Scrooges ghost.

[Mr. Death]

His soul separated from his body. His body would have decomposed if three extremely powerful supernatural forces hadn't kept it alive in only the most technical, purely mechanical sense.

He was shot and his body stopped functioning. He lost the ability to continue functioning. His heart stopped. He had no brain activity, otherwise he wouldn't have needed Mab, Demonreach and Bonnie to do it manually for him.

He was dead. His soul just didn't move on yet and definitely could have if he'd wanted to.

[morriswalters]

He was dead. His soul just didn't move on yet and definitely could have if he'd wanted to.

Where was his soul during the six months?

[Mr. Death]

Where was his soul during the six months?

Who knows and, well, what does it matter? Time gets screwy in the Nevernever, so it probably goes screwy in the places between life and the afterlives.

The books and several characters in the know say he was dead. His body ceased to function and his soul wasn't in it.

That's basically the definition of dead.

[groinkick]

Who knows and, well, what does it matter? Time gets screwy in the Nevernever, so it probably goes screwy in the places between life and the afterlives.

The books and several characters in the know say he was dead. His body ceased to function and his soul wasn't in it.

That's basically the definition of dead.

I got the impression he was in a coma, but so deep in a coma it was almost death.  I mean in real life people "die", and are brought back.  Sometimes for extended periods of time.  What Mab and the others did was the same as what humans do, albeit at a more advanced level.  Didn't Mab say if he'd gone completely even she couldn't have gotten him back?  He might have died shortly, but I think that for the 6 months he was comatose.  They kept him alive enough for his wizard healing to take over.  There is also the Uriel thing going on.  We saw what Harry did directly, but there may have been more subtle things going on that we won't realize until future books.

[morriswalters]

Who knows and, well, what does it matter? Time gets screwy in the Nevernever, so it probably goes screwy in the places between life and the afterlives.

The books and several characters in the know say he was dead. His body ceased to function and his soul wasn't in it.

That's basically the definition of dead.

Mab in Ghost Story

"Long have this old thing and I have labored to keep your form alive, my knight," Mab said.  "Long have we kept flesh and bone knit together and stirring, waiting for your spirits return."

Harry in Ghost Story

"I think  you don't have the time or the energy to spare to fight your own knight.  I think you need me, or you wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of keeping me alive for this long, of taxing your strength this much to get it done."

Vadderung in Cold Days

"Well, well, well," he said.  "Rumors of your death, et cetera."

[Mira]

I got the impression he was in a coma, but so deep in a coma it was almost death.  I mean in real life people "die", and are brought back.  Sometimes for extended periods of time.  What Mab and the others did was the same as what humans do, albeit at a more advanced level.  Didn't Mab say if he'd gone completely even she couldn't have gotten him back?  He might have died shortly, but I think that for the 6 months he was comatose.  They kept him alive enough for his wizard healing to take over.  There is also the Uriel thing going on.  We saw what Harry did directly, but there may have been more subtle things going on that we won't realize until future books.

 Also we had both Bob and  Mort saying that Harry was in danger because he really wasn't a ghost, as in what is left behind when someone is ALL dead.
Mab

Quote

    And Mab again in Ghost Story

    "Death is a spectrum, not a line.   And you my knight, had not yet vanished into the utter darkness."

Last part of that line being the most important.... Harry had not yet vanished..  Meaning
he may have been mostly dead, but not all dead....

To quote Miracle Max,  paraphrasing,  all dead verses mostly dead...  " mostly dead means slightly alive, now with all dead there is nothing left to do but go through his pockets and look for loose change." 

[wardenferry419]

Nice quote. I like it.

[morriswalters]

I agree, yet forumghost rightly could cite this. 
Vadderung to Dresden in Cold Days

"Wizard...you have been dead and returned.  It has marked you."

And why  I mark everyone as unreliable narrators. A thing which I believe that JB has done purposely.  He's all over the place.

A couple of questions.  If Maeve and Sarissa were Mab's daughters, who was the father?  And if they were in fact her children could there be another little Harry or Harrietta crawling around somewhere at Arctis Tor?

Is Gatekeeper the first mortal Gatekeeper? And if he is, is Mac a fey and perhaps the previous Watcher at the gate.  Which would make him who?  If I can believe what I've read, the gate might predate wizardry.

[peregrine]

Maeve and Sarissa's dad was a composer in the 1600s or so, give or take.  Austrian I think.

As for Mab getting a baby off of Harry, I doubt it, just because Jim's gone to that well once already.

[forumghost]

TBH this is probably the most important one:

"Told me . . . I was dead," I muttered.
"Dead is a grey word," Mab hissed. "Mortals fear it, and so they wish it to be black—and they have but few words to contain its reality. It escapes from such constraints. Death is a spectrum, not a line. And you, my knight, had not yet vanished into the utter darkness."

Everyone else that's quoted this line here seems to have missed the most relevant half of it. People are too determined that "He came back, so he wasn't really dead". They're doing exactly what Mab says here- trying to turn Death into a yes/no question rather then a gradient.

Harry was dead enough to be considered dead by gods, and spirits. Dead enough that his Soul was gone from his body and he only came back because multiple powerful entities were manually pumping his lungs and heart for 6 months. Dead enough that he very nearly caught the South Bound Train at the start of the Story. Dead enough that Mr Sunshine was able to offer him a Job in Ghost Chicago.

He was very dead. Just apparently not dead enough. Not unlike the Corpsetaker (Well, she didn't have anyone preserving her Body for her, so she was probably one or two shades more dead then Harry).

[Mira]

Everyone else that's quoted this line here seems to have missed the most relevant half of it. People are too determined that "He came back, so he wasn't really dead". They're doing exactly what Mab says here- trying to turn Death into a yes/no question rather then a gradient.

No, more Miracle Max....  Even Mab says beyond a certain point there is no coming back..  Harry never reached that point on the spectrum, close, but no cigar..  He was only mostly dead, but slightly alive, it is perfectly right to say he came back from the dead, but it is also right to say he was never all dead.

The plainest evidence that Harry was never totally dead and gone is what is explained to him when he wakes up,  Mab explains how she, Alfred, and the parasite kept his body functions going while his soul did it's walk about...  This means his body was alive, perhaps close to the threshold that one doesn't return from, but alive..  If he was all dead, all Mab could do was bury the body..