Is it possible to kill a WC Hunger Demon?

[SerScot]

Really.  What if a WC vampire were contained and not allowed to feed?  Shouldn’t it eventually die leaving just a human?

[khadgar4606]

okay here it the problem thomas trying to do that for  how long. the only way i think some one get rid of white court demon is i think let some other spiritual supernatural beat the demon and destroy it.

[peregrine]

Yeah, but depending on how much of a reserve its got, it can take 40 years or more.

And also, as the demon gets more and more hungry, it'll drive the host crazy.

[Wizard Sibelis]

Really.  What if a WC vampire were contained and not allowed to feed?  Shouldn’t it eventually die leaving just a human?

It would probably consume the host trying to stay alive, it is basically a parasite, not a symbiont.

[Arjan]

Lea might know:

“What did you do to them?”
“I lulled their predator spirit to sleep,” she said calmly. “Poor lambs. They didn’t realize how much strength they drew from it. Mayhap this will prove a useful lesson.”
I frowned at that. “You mean . . . the vampire part of them?”
“Of course.”
I sat there for a moment, stunned.
If the vampire infection within half vampires like Susan and Martin could be enchanted to sleep, then it was presumably possible to do other things to it as well. Suppress it, maybe permanently.
It might even be possible to destroy it.
I felt a door in my mind open upon a hope I had shut away a long time ago.
Maybe I could save them both.
“I . . .” I shook my head. “I searched for a way to . . . I spent more than a . . .” I shook my head harder. “I spent more than a year trying to find a way to . . .” I looked at my godmother. “How? How did you do it?”
She looked back at me, her lips curled into something that wasn’t precisely a smile. “Oh, sweet child. Information of that sort is treasure indeed. What have you to trade for such a precious gem of knowledge?”

A white court hunger demon is far more integrated with the host than a red one so maybe it is not possible but if it is Lea knows.

Do you have a firstborn to trade?

[groinkick]

I don't think you could starve the WC demon to death.  I think the host would die first, and the demon would return to the nevernever or the Outside or wherever they originate from. 

[Arjan]

I don't think you could starve the WC demon to death.  I think the host would die first, and the demon would return to the nevernever or the Outside or wherever they originate from.

Shagnasty tried it. If you starve the demon it will at some point simply take over and start hunting.

[SerScot]

Shagnasty tried it. If you starve the demon it will at some point simply take over and start hunting.

That’s why I suggested this happen while the White Court vamp is contained so that they cannot hunt.

[Arjan]

That’s why I suggested this happen while the White Court vamp is contained so that they cannot hunt.

Pain, madness and death I suppose. Both of them. The hunger is too integrated to see as a totally seperated thing.

[Mira]

   Like all parasites apparently the Hunger demon goes through stages in it's development...  We learn in Blood Rite that if the host finds true love before having killed someone during the sex act, the demon can be burned out or killed.  After that, as we've seen with Thomas, even with true love he cannot kill his demon.   So I'd say yes, it is possible, but very difficult because it is all about timing and finding one's true love isn't an easy thing.

[vultur]

With enough power it ought to be possible. But the problem would be finding enough power in a way that isn't lethal to the human host. (There's a WOJ that Mab could remove the demon from Thomas, but it would basically destroy him since Mab isn't that gentle.)

I don't think starvation would do it though. I think you'd need either a being of "force of nature"/cosmic level power (like a Faerie Queen or Mother, a major/relatively undiminished god, an angel or Archangel, etc.) or a really enormously supercharged thaumaturgical spell (like the Bloodline Curse that wiped out the Red Court and removed the infection from the Infected... maybe not quite so huge if you're just trying to do it to one person, but I think it's still way more than even a powerful wizard is likely to be able to manage, since Harry couldn't find a way to cure Susan in months of research between GP and SK).

And most entities powerful enough to do it have cosmic constraints keeping them from using their power freely.

[LordDresden2]

With enough power it ought to be possible. But the problem would be finding enough power in a way that isn't lethal to the human host. (There's a WOJ that Mab could remove the demon from Thomas, but it would basically destroy him since Mab isn't that gentle.)

I don't think that the problem is that Mab isn't gentle, so much as that there's no sharp dividing line where Thomas Raith, human being, stops, and the Hunger begins, they blende into each other and are sort of one thing.  If Mab rips out the Hunger, she would take a lot of Thomas with it because they are merged.  Trying to be gentle, I suspect, would just produce the same results more slowly.

I think you might compare it to the way a grafted plant merges, only the graft line is all over the plant.

Before that first feeding, I think the two are mostly separate, at that point Mab could probably rip the Hunger out with a minimum of harm.  After that first feeding, I think things are different.

[Arjan]

It would probably consume the host trying to stay alive, it is basically a parasite, not a symbiont.

Most symbiotic relations break down if you put that much stress on it.

If you look at it from a biological point of view they are not just symbiots, they are on the verge of becoming one species.

the replication is bound to the replication of the host in such a way that the interests of the host and the hunger alaign for a great deal. Compared to that a red court vampire is the real parasite. It sterilises the host and spreads via infection.

A nice SF about parasites and symbiots is Harry Harrison's Planet of the damned.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/21873

[Wizard Sibelis]

Most symbiotic relations break down if you put that much stress on it.

If you look at it from a biological point of view they are not just symbiots, they are on the verge of becoming one species.

the replication is bound to the replication of the host in such a way that the interests of the host and the hunger alaign for a great deal. Compared to that a red court vampire is the real parasite. It sterilises the host and spreads via infection.

A nice SF about parasites and symbiots is Harry Harrison's Planet of the damned.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/21873

Sorry but we have no proof of either of those, we know getting bit does not automatically infect, so a blood gift or however(since we never see how they force the half transformation) isn't provable to be any viral/bacterial disease. Nor can they be for sure sterile when The chick Harry killed Dueling in CH was the daughter of the King. Though possible from some point when he wasn't a vampire... unless we see proof the king was ever not what he is I'd hardly believe it.

[Arjan]

Sorry but we have no proof of either of those, we know getting bit does not automatically infect, so a blood gift or however(since we never see how they force the half transformation) isn't provable to be any viral/bacterial disease. Nor can they be for sure sterile when The chick Harry killed Dueling in CH was the daughter of the King. Though possible from some point when he wasn't a vampire... unless we see proof the king was ever not what he is I'd hardly believe it.

It is obviously not a bacterie or a virus, we are talking magic here. IT is a spiritual infection Just like nemesis is a spiritual infection.

Blood is not enough to carry it over but ask Susan about it.

The vampires see those who they infected and turned  (taken over) as their children, that was mentioned several times. Normal parent child  relations are not mentioned.

Another word for spiritual infection is of course possession though the relation between the resident spirit and the invading one does not have to be that straightforward and there all the different parasite and symbiotic possibilities appear.