Walker enslaving a Denarian, other ideas

[groinkick]

A Coin went missing during the Demonreach mission.  Could it be that when He Who Walks Before was at Demonreach it obtained the Coin from the water?  Jim stating that a Walker is Archangel level of power could mean it would enslave a Denarian trapped in it's Coin.

Could the Coin have ended up with a Dark god that's locked up? 

If none of these where do you think the Coin is?

[Kindler]

A Coin went missing during the Demonreach mission.  Could it be that when He Who Walks Before was at Demonreach it obtained the Coin from the water?  Jim stating that a Walker is Archangel level of power could mean it would enslave a Denarian trapped in it's Coin.

Could the Coin have ended up with a Dark god that's locked up? 

If none of these where do you think the Coin is?

I've often thought that Mab or one of Mab's flunkies might've taken it. As she justifies to Harry at the end of Ghost Story, (page 485 on Nook) "Your broken body fell from your ship into cold and darkness—and they are my domain."

The way I figure it, Mab was keeping an eye on Harry during Small Favor, just as she was near the end of Changes, and if a Coin fell into the water, she'd take steps to nab it. She's got an axe to grind against the Denarians, after all, and a Coin is a potential source of information.

[Quantus]

Jim stating that a Walker is Archangel level of power could mean it would enslave a Denarian trapped in it's Coin.

Is that new?

[raidem]

Yeah, the bit about hwwb being on the same/similar power level as uriel.

[groinkick]

Yeah I was pretty surprised that a Walker had that kind of juice, but Jim also said that their are a lot of limitations to what they can do.

Just a guess but I'm thinking that what we have seen so far is just a projection of themselves in this reality, a tiny sliver of themselves. 

[vultur]

I thought the favored theory was that Gard took the coin and Odin/Monoc Securities has it now?

Jim stating that a Walker is Archangel level of power could mean it would enslave a Denarian trapped in it's Coin.

I'm not sure something as inhuman as a Walker could meaningfully "interface" with a Denarian coin. It's possible since we know so little about them, but I rather doubt the Coin would have laid around for years unattended.

Could the Coin have ended up with a Dark god that's locked up?

I doubt it, I think only humans can bond with a Coin.

There's some latitude for variant-humans like the Genoskwa or White Court Vampires (Harry certainly thinks Thomas could be affected), but I think a human-type soul is a necessity. Even if I'm wrong about that, I don't think a Denarian could do much with an actual Immortal, which are immutable barring Halloween effects (Bob talks about the "locked stasis of immortality" in CD).

More likely, I think, would be the coin being imprisoned on its own -- if it was lying unattended on the island, Alfred might be able to take it into custody without a Warden's orders.

[vultur]

Yeah I was pretty surprised that a Walker had that kind of juice, but Jim also said that their are a lot of limitations to what they can do.

Just a guess but I'm thinking that what we have seen so far is just a projection of themselves in this reality, a tiny sliver of themselves.

That sounds right, because Harry describes HWWBefore/Sharkface as being not larger than Mab but horribly deeper, like a sculpture vs a painting... it has an extra dimension. That could mean that the presence of HHWBefore that Harry encounters is just like a "window" that the true being Outside is reaching through.

Also, when Harry blows up Sharkface's head, a weird cloud entity flies away and the body falls down dead. So what Harry fights might actually be two levels removed: a physical body possessed/animated by a projection of the true HWWBefore. That would explain how Harry could beat something that's on the same "destroy galaxies by blinking" level as Uriel.

Hmmm... if true, that's kind of reminiscent of Ursiel in Death Masks - the mental/spiritual presence in the soulgaze is utterly overwhelming, just like HWWBefore has a massive mental attack. If that parallel is valid (enormous raw "spiritual" power sharply limited by a physical form), then who or what was the Sharkface body originally? A human body mutated by the Outsider's possession? A Fomor or Fomor-servant?

[Quantus]

That sounds right, because Harry describes HWWBefore/Sharkface as being not larger than Mab but horribly deeper, like a sculpture vs a painting... it has an extra dimension. That could mean that the presence of HHWBefore that Harry encounters is just like a "window" that the true being Outside is reaching through.

Also, when Harry blows up Sharkface's head, a weird cloud entity flies away and the body falls down dead. So what Harry fights might actually be two levels removed: a physical body possessed/animated by a projection of the true HWWBefore. That would explain how Harry could beat something that's on the same "destroy galaxies by blinking" level as Uriel.

Hmmm... if true, that's kind of reminiscent of Ursiel in Death Masks - the mental/spiritual presence in the soulgaze is utterly overwhelming, just like HWWBefore has a massive mental attack. If that parallel is valid (enormous raw "spiritual" power sharply limited by a physical form), then who or what was the Sharkface body originally? A human body mutated by the Outsider's possession? A Fomor or Fomor-servant?

There's a (possibly half-joking) WOJ that it was Vitto from WN.  Basically somebody asked if it was Vitto and he said something to the effect of "Oh that a really cool Ide- I mean YES! I meant it that way the whole time!"

[Wizard Sibelis]

Mmm this reminds me of my theory of the Walkers as Horsemen... and wonder about the combination of Walker(or other outside type being) and Starborn in one being, the consequences...

[groinkick]

Mmm this reminds me of my theory of the Walkers as Horsemen... and wonder about the combination of Walker(or other outside type being) and Starborn in one being, the consequences...

But there are 3 Walkers, and 4 Horsemen?  I do kind of like the idea but don't know how it would fit. 

Pestilence - Nemesis
War - He Who Walks Before
Death - He Who Walks Behind
Famine - ??

[Wizard Sibelis]

But there are 3 Walkers, and 4 Horsemen?  I do kind of like the idea but don't know how it would fit. 

Pestilence - Nemesis
War - He Who Walks Before
Death - He Who Walks Behind
Famine - ??

That's a misnomer everyone believes because three beer bottles were placed side by side... but no evidence exists this claim is true... and syntax would actually indicate otherwise per SF. "Those who walk before and he who walks behind"
I'd actually break it down
He Who Walks Before=Fearbringer
He Who Walks Before=Despair
He Who Walks Before=Lust(keeping in mind this is inclusive of the idea of greed and other forms of desire)
The End Walks the Land.... aka Mother Winter.
He Who Walks Behind=Death.
Which I know, doesn't include Nemesis, but I don't think N is a simple Walker, and if She is, it's likely a permutation of The End i'm not thinking of, though her aspect tends to be The Chooser not The End.
With any permutations of such being simply the mask of their power they managed to fit into reality al la pestilence, Famine, ect. I think also that previous masks have already been repurposed under new identity in reality to new hosts... With for instance, EK being a decent 'Beasts' while the Archive would closely suit human 'Conquest'.(oh hey and look, they tried to off or corrupt both those guys at one point or another, DB eating EK in the Hollow, SmF getting Ivy a coin, a Nemfected/traitorous coin likely at that)
Technically by the wording of the book, I have more evidence in my favor than 'the 3 Walkers'(especially Beside... though I think he may have added Those Who Walk Beside as a specific turn of in house joke in response to an idea based on people erroraniously thinking the 3rd Walker is Beside, he made Odin and his ilk the 'Beside' humanity guys) we just know 3 are coming for Harry, not any defined # or totality.

[groinkick]

That's a misnomer everyone believes because three beer bottles were placed side by side... but no evidence exists this claim is true...

That was the evidence....  Mac was the "talking head", dropping information for the reader.

[Wizard Sibelis]

That was the evidence....  Mac was the "talking head", dropping information for the reader.

and he was so very intentionally vague. You can look at the 3 beer bottles and make the leap from 3 are coming for Harry to three are important or matter here all, all day. But it's a deduction, and what's more it was kept vague so we would make the wrong deduction.

[groinkick]

and he was so very intentionally vague. You can look at the 3 beer bottles and make the leap from 3 are coming for Harry to three are important or matter here all, all day. But it's a deduction, and what's more it was kept vague so we would make the wrong deduction.

What exactly led you to this conclusion?  Why give Harry any information if it's going to be misleading?

[wardenferry419]

Aren't the Walkers the Knights to a bigger power? Or did I get that wrong?