Author Topic: WAG.... Murphy has moved on  (Read 76271 times)

Offline jonas

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2018, 06:12:04 PM »
I am sure it fits nicely in your Mouse is Cerberos and Harry is Hades theory. :-)
You mean the one Hades himself pointed out to Harry intentionally? ;)
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Offline Arjan

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2018, 06:32:29 PM »
You mean the one Hades himself pointed out to Harry intentionally? ;)
Foreshadowed yes.
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Offline groinkick

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2018, 06:43:37 PM »
Well.....  There a multiverse in the Dresdenverse.  It may even be an infinite multiverse in which anything that can happen, does happen.  So Murphy going back in time, and becoming Mab may actually happen....  It may not happen in the Dresden series we are reading, but rest assured, it did happen! ;)
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Offline Mira

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2018, 07:44:10 PM »
It should be ok as long as nobody quotes false evidence. But actually Murphy and Harry understand each other quite well and sometimes better than they understand themselves.

I don't have to fabricate evidence for this. I have divine inspiration. MSTR told me.

But don't take my word for it. Read the whole series again and watch Mister and Mouse. They are in favor of this relationship. That should tell you enough.

 No, I don't think they do, or at least Murphy doesn't.   Much of her advice, her observations of him, her fear of him and for him are based on the pre-Changes Harry...  In short she'd like the old Harry back, but he ain't ever going to come back...

Offline raidem

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #94 on: June 17, 2018, 07:51:21 PM »
Quote
I am sure it fits nicely in your Mouse is Cerberos and Harry is Hades theory. :-)

I don't think I ever compared or said Mouse is Cerberos.  I did however postulate in some far out WAG's that Harry is like Hades.  I even made a WAG where I thought maybe Marcone was trying to rejoin his father (Hades/Harry) and mother (Murphy/Mab). In that WAG, I had Harry as a Hades character but those were far flung ones that I didn't give much serious attention.

I did also draw a link between Mrs. Spunklecrief's "you can tell a lot about a man by how he treats his dog" to apply both to Harry and to Hades.  Hades also, as Jonas accurately depicts, is described in a way like a man with man's best friend.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 07:58:38 PM by raidem »
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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #95 on: June 17, 2018, 08:06:08 PM »
No, I don't think they do, or at least Murphy doesn't.   Much of her advice, her observations of him, her fear of him and for him are based on the pre-Changes Harry...  In short she'd like the old Harry back, but he ain't ever going to come back...
[citation needed]
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Offline Arjan

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #96 on: June 17, 2018, 08:20:26 PM »
No, I don't think they do, or at least Murphy doesn't.   Much of her advice, her observations of him, her fear of him and for him are based on the pre-Changes Harry...  In short she'd like the old Harry back, but he ain't ever going to come back...
Actually some of it is comming back and he got a better handle on the things that did change. Just compare skin game Harry with cold days Harry and that becomes evident. Karen has a good grip on that. It is actually Butters who has not and caused serious problems because of that.

Skin game actually shows how deep their love goes and how closely they connect.

[citation needed]
That won't get you far. The story came to me and I got a feeling I know is true. It has been revealed to me on a deeply spiritual level. I know the truth about Karen and Harry because Mister told me in a dream. Of course you won't take my word for that because you are blinded by your misconceptions so I make up some quotes and abuse some scenes for evidence, it is all in the service of the higher truth. Because Karen and Harry are champions of Mister and they are destined for each other.

[But it is interesting how someone can get a feeling out of a book that is totally conflicting with anything written in the book. See it as a statement of feelings, wonder about it and go on.]
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Offline Avernite

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #97 on: June 17, 2018, 08:48:11 PM »
Aesthetics and such aside, his life is a mess. He’s not even his own man anymore. What sort of relationship can people even have like that? One of settling and convenience, really. But as a real partner, Dresden isn’t able to offer much. In terms of just having some comfort or whatnot, he’d do for something casual if you were into his look and lifestyle. Then again, any nice looking guy who didn’t have expectations would be better for something casual as Dresden does have expectations while being completely unsuited to what he wants. In the future, if he survives and his life is his own again and no longer a shitshow, he might be a better candidate. Right now, though, his life is a disaster.
He has a steady job with Mab, the shorts suggests he has a house all his own, he has a daughter to care for. And he's not a footsoldier or NCO anymore like he was as Warden in the Reds war, more like a senior officer now.

If at any time in the prior books his life was less of a mess, it must've been when Susan was still human.

Offline forumghost

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #98 on: June 17, 2018, 10:12:30 PM »
Eh, is it really a steady job when you don't get paid, your boss only shows up to give you an assignment every few months, and literally owns you? Harry isn't employed, he's enslaved by a horrifying monster- one that has corrupted his mind to the point where he has to constantly struggle not to commit rape and murder. In SG he was only able to help Butters by convincing himself/the Mantle that Butters was a possession that someone was trying to steal from him.

Harry isn't exactly in a great spot in a lot of ways.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 10:23:42 PM by forumghost »

Offline Mira

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #99 on: June 18, 2018, 01:19:37 AM »
Quote
Actually some of it is comming back and he got a better handle on the things that did change. Just compare skin game Harry with cold days Harry and that becomes evident. Karen has a good grip on that. It is actually Butters who has not and caused serious problems because of that.

No, she doesn't, she sees the externals, but because she bases it all on what she used to know about Harry, and lectures him as to why isn't he like that now and how concerned his friends are that he isn't like he used to be, she is clueless... She doesn't ask questions nor does she really listen to him..   Murphy in truth is a very closed minded person, not saying she is bad, but she has her ideas and stands by them.   That is what I think has driven me away from the character, it is like knowing your eleven year old, and thinking the same formula/lecture will work when he or she is twenty-five and has lived in the world...  This is how she treats Harry...  The biggest proof is what happened with the Sword after what she told Harry, that speaks volumes about her not trusting him on so many levels in spite of her love for him.

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #100 on: June 18, 2018, 02:01:45 AM »
No, she doesn't, she sees the externals, but because she bases it all on what she used to know about Harry, and lectures him as to why isn't he like that now and how concerned his friends are that he isn't like he used to be, she is clueless... She doesn't ask questions nor does she really listen to him..   Murphy in truth is a very closed minded person, not saying she is bad, but she has her ideas and stands by them.   That is what I think has driven me away from the character, it is like knowing your eleven year old, and thinking the same formula/lecture will work when he or she is twenty-five and has lived in the world...  This is how she treats Harry...  The biggest proof is what happened with the Sword after what she told Harry, that speaks volumes about her not trusting him on so many levels in spite of her love for him.
That is manifestly not true based on Murphy's behavior in the books. Nothing you said in that graph is at all reflected in what Murphy has said or done in recent books.

We've gone over this before. Repeatedly. Murphy displays an enormous amount of trust in Harry during the books and is repeatedly and consistently shown to ask Harry things and listen to what he has to say. That is literally her major function in the books, so saying she never does so is completely at odds with reality and is therefore baseless, needless bashing.

The actions and attitudes you're ascribing to Murphy are simply not in evidence in the books. This is exactly what I was talking about on the first page of this thread.

You are not in any way describing Murphy. The character you're describing does not exist in the books.

The character you're describing would not have offered to follow Harry into Hades surrounded by some of the worst people and creatures on the planet. She would not have risked her life for him. She would not have offered him her bed when he needed test.

The character you're describing would have done none of the things Murphy did.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 02:21:16 AM by Mr. Death »
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

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Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline groinkick

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #101 on: June 18, 2018, 04:01:41 AM »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline jonas

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #102 on: June 18, 2018, 04:23:07 AM »
I don't think I ever compared or said Mouse is Cerberos.
Lol... I just realized that's reason why they stole not one but two of his siblings.(both doyalist and Watsonian) They represent the three heads of Cerberus together.
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Offline peregrine

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #103 on: June 18, 2018, 04:45:32 AM »
Except that there's already an actual three headed Cerberus hanging around.  Mab and Titania don't go around having lunch with Hecate for example.

Offline Arjan

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Re: WAG.... Murphy has moved on
« Reply #104 on: June 18, 2018, 04:56:52 AM »
That is manifestly not true based on Murphy's behavior in the books. Nothing you said in that graph is at all reflected in what Murphy has said or done in recent books.

We've gone over this before. Repeatedly. Murphy displays an enormous amount of trust in Harry during the books and is repeatedly and consistently shown to ask Harry things and listen to what he has to say. That is literally her major function in the books, so saying she never does so is completely at odds with reality and is therefore baseless, needless bashing.

The actions and attitudes you're ascribing to Murphy are simply not in evidence in the books. This is exactly what I was talking about on the first page of this thread.

You are not in any way describing Murphy. The character you're describing does not exist in the books.

The character you're describing would not have offered to follow Harry into Hades surrounded by some of the worst people and creatures on the planet. She would not have risked her life for him. She would not have offered him her bed when he needed test.

The character you're describing would have done none of the things Murphy did.
Everything can be explained with the right application of the Murphy is Mab theory. Mab is slowly taking over Murphy but she does not completely understand humans let alone Harry.

Harry is married to Mab so when Harry and Karen finally consummate their relationship the magical link will be completed and Murphy will turn into Mab which he will notice when he wakes up next to her.
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