WAG.... Murphy has moved on

[WereElephant]

I could see her ending up in a role somewhere between where she was and where Charity is. I don't see her as a stay-at-home type, but even before the injury, she knew well enough that any fight she was in was uphill. With the injury, she's at a greater disadvantage, and she knows that. So I see her being Harry's support (like she always has been), less likely to dive in and get rough, but still able to if she had to.

One thing we can probably all agree with is that Jim loves the "seemingly helpless person turns out to be really dangerous" trope. It pops up frequently, and has even popped up with Murphy herself a few times. So what I'm expecting is some uppity faerie to start in on her, only to find out that Murphy's walking cane just so happens to be made out of stainless steel when she breaks his nose with it.

That's the kind of future I see for Murphy -- more support-ish, but still capable.

I could accept that. 'Guess we'll see what he decides.

I place Murphy in a similar role. She might be the only character besides Harry to have appeared in every single book, and is very nearly as central a character as he is.

Except, interestingly, Dead Beat. She does technically show up at the start and finish, but it's basically a cameo. Her role there got split between Rawlins and Butters. While her prevalence as a recurring sidekick, so to speak, does make her important to the plot, Dead Beat shows that she isn't an indispensable character.

Torturing Harry is what Jim Butcher does, not why he does. He might enjoy it, but I don't get sense that's what directs the plotline.

One does not plot by pain alone, true, but consider the finale of Changes. If Susan hadn't been as meaningful to Harry as she was, the final decision to kill her would have had less impact on the reader. If Mr. Butcher decides to off Murphy (if), it would make sense from his point to strengthen that blow to the readers by tantalizing us with the hope that she and Dresden were finally going to make it work.

This also would be different from Susan. It was established early on in Changes that her decision to hide Maggie from Dresden permanently ended any hopes of them reconciling. Not a recycled plot.

Right. Not planned out.

Meaning, for example, that arguments that Murphy has to go to make room for Molly are, by that logic, hogwash.

That said, while he didn't plan it out from the start, I find it hard to believe he isn't thinking about the status as he plots upcoming books.

Not hogwash. As you say, while not planned out, it's not like he isn't thinking about it. If he is leaning toward Molly for the future (not definitely, but possibly), then one way to make that work would be to remove Murphy. Setting up Murphy for a fall keeps his options open. Up until he finishes writing it, he can redirect the plot as his desires take him.

And I didn't mean so much that he'd planned Murphy to be Harry's MJ (Marvel certainly hadn't planned Parker's arc that way to start with) so much as she occupies the same kind of narrative space. Gwen/Susan were Harry's first in-story love, and one who died in circumstances that Peter/Harry hold themselves responsible for. MJ/Murphy are second-loves, who might have been around before Gwen/Susan, but who came into his romantic life later, after proving themselves trustworthy, reliable companions.

Thank you for the clarification.

I just call it like I see it.

That's all we can do.

[groinkick]

Wonder if Murphy could become a Valkyrie...  I remember when Harry saw her with his Sight that she had wings, and appeared as a warrior (could also have been a hint about becoming a KoTC though)

[Mr. Death]

It seems to fit, though Murphy rejected that exact offer at the end of Aftermath.

[groinkick]

It seems to fit, though Murphy rejected that exact offer at the end of Aftermath.

I haven't read Aftermath.  She was offered it by Odin or something?

[raidem]

I don't think she rejected that exact offer.  It was an offer that was left on the table.  We don't know what Murphy chose, except we do know that it appears since she was indeed injured that she hasn't yet taken the offer up.

Gard offered it to Murphy.  So it does seem that it is something in play, at least plausible.

[Mr. Death]

I haven't read Aftermath.  She was offered it by Odin or something?

After the whole situation is sorted out, an impressed Gard approaches Murphy and offers her a job, and Murphy gives her a firm no.

I don't think she rejected that exact offer.  It was an offer that was left on the table.  We don't know what Murphy chose, except we do know that it appears since she was indeed injured that she hasn't yet taken the offer up.

Gard offered it to Murphy.  So it does seem that it is something in play, at least plausible.

Nope, Murphy is pretty clear about rejecting the offer.

Gard nodded, her eyes steady, and she looked back at the warehouse again. “There’s another position you might consider. Monoc Securities is always hiring. My boss is always pleased to find those with the proper”—she pursed her lips—“frame of mind. Considering your experience and skill set, I think you could do very well as one of our security consultants.”
“And work for guys like Marcone?” I asked.
“You should bear in mind that this is the second such incursion of the fomor,” Gard said in a level voice. “And there have been a half-dozen others nosing at the city in the last eight months alone. All of them have been turned away, courtesy of Marcone.”
“He’s swell,” I said.
“He keeps his word,” Gard replied, “which puts him a step above most of your own superiors, in my opinion. Like him or not, he has defended this city. It’s no minor thing.”
“Every predator defends its territory,” I said. “Pass.”

[raidem]

Nicely done. Except, you deliberately left out this from the exchange:

Her eyes glittered with amusement, and she shook her head. “Vadderung would definitely find you interesting. You’ve even got the hair for it. Don’t be surprised if you get a call sometime.” “It’s a free country,” I said. “Is there anything else?”

Does it go on though that Gard leaves it out there as a standing offer?  I mean, Murphy can change her mind.  I don't think she would accept a consulting job but in my minds eye I could see a non consulting valkyrie job.

So a job is left on the table.  The job Odin may have in mind isn't spelled out except that Gard believes Vadderung would find Murphy interesting.  And before we start arguing more, this is about "that exact offer" being in reference to Groinkick's statement regarding Murphy's fitness to be a Valkyrie and it isn't the 'exact offer' of being a security consultant as Groinkick didn't suggest that and which I didn't say Murphy had rejected.  I argued Murphy was open to an offer from Vadderung and it seems she is indeed at least to the phone call.

[groinkick]

Seems to be she is turned off because of whom she might have to work for, like Marcone.  If she's given the option of choosing who she works with it may change her mind.   But looks like she's interested in making her own Choices which makes her a lot like Harry.

[Mr. Death]

I don't think it matters if Gard's offer is still on the table. Murphy said no, and Gard's follow up didn't change that. Murphy seems keen to just move on and finish the conversation.

[raidem]

We aren't talking now only about Gard's offer.  We are talking about whatever potentiality Odin may have regarding Murphy.  Gard thinks it likely Vadderung has an interest in Murphy and will get in touch.  Jim wrote it and had Gard say it.  I think there will be follow up on this.

Gard's offer about security consultant was pretty much refused by Murphy. I agree.  Where I differ from you is that the next part of the exchange leaves open Odin contacting Murphy which leads one to speculate about some 'job' that is planned.

[Mr. Death]

Pretty sure that's just Gard still talking about that offer. It sure doesn't seem like she got some extra note from the head office in the half-second between one sentence and the next.

I don't really see how there's any "separate" offer. The exchange amounts to, "Do you want a job with us?" "No." "Well, we're interested in you, so we might call you anyway." "Nothing's stopping you from calling. Are we done here?"

[Quantus]

These threads really haven't changed much.

nope...

[Dashkull]

   But looks like she's interested in making her own Choices which makes her a lot like Harry.

I have been repeatedly assured on these boards that Murphy and Harry really have nothing much in common.

[Arjan]

I have been repeatedly assured on these boards that Murphy and Harry really have nothing much in common.

I have been assured on these boards that Harry is already married to Murpy aka Mab.

[raidem]

It is going to be horrible for me when I'm wrong.  I'll get over it quick, I promise.


I've seen that Jim watched lots of Babylon 5 while writing, formulating the Dresden Files.  I'm going to need to binge watch it and compare and contrast that show with Dresden Files like I did with Amber series and DF previously.  Anyways, in Babylon 5 they have some time travel plot within an overarching story and we do have a WOJ that Jim wants to do something like Babylon 5.

In Babylon 5, Jeffrey Sinclair the commander of the station in season 1 gets transported into the past 1000 years to later become Valen, a Minbari prophet held in highest regard by the Minbari.  1000 years later a war breaks out between Minbar and Earth because a human spaceship mistakenly interprets Minbari warship aggression and fires on it killing its leader.  This sets off a war between Earth and Minbar.  Just before Earth's fleet is demolished, Minbari fleet takes in a shot up human fighter to test a human.  They use a ritual object on him (Jeffrey Sinclair) and it erupts in a great light.  Minbar now knows Minbari souls have been reborn into humans. Minbar surrender as Minbari are forbidden from killing Minbarri.  This begins the development of the Babylon space stations.  Babylon 4 ends up being a station that the past needs to defeat the "Shadows'.  It is involved in a time traveling plot as is Jeffrey Sinclair.  This brings us back to Babylon 5, Jeffrey Sinclair finishes his command of Babylon 5 for 1st season of the show and then goes off to be an ambassador to Minbari.  He of course, as I said before, later becomes Valen in a time traveling plot 1000 years in the past.

I believe we now have another circumstantial piece of evidence that Jim may be planning a time traveling piece back to, in some way, 1000 years ago to when Mab ascended.  This may be a parallel to Babylon 5.

It should also be mentioned that Sheridan and Delenn, who I would view as Harry and Murphy, end up with a baby boy David.  I'd say somehow Marcone would end up being this parallel David, I'd have to somehow insert him though 40years prior to Storm Front somehow as we have WOJ that suggests he is 40yo at SF. 

Anyways, I had this peculiar thought while writing this.  I was thinking of Murphy and how she might be able to bypass the Lady restriction on maidenhood.  I was thinking maybe she have to do a body switch or something.  After all, you are a soul, you have a body. Anyways, it was a side tangential thought but then it led me to Amanda Beckitt and me wondering what is Jim planning for her.