Saints

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We're getting new Meat to Chew!

Reddit AMA 2018
What is a Saint?
2) I've got an outline for three, six, or nine books depending on how folks are liking it. 3) Saints, for practical purposes in the Dresden Files, distinct from straightforward religious figures, were mainly people with a wizard's or sorcerer's talents who went into the Church and who blended faith magic with their natural abilities to accomplish some amazing things. Most of the Catholic saints were members of the White Council as well. As the power of the Church waned, the word Saint kind of gradually turned to saint, and in the current storyline saints are simply people who blend faith with their magic.

It is Frowned Upon to be a practicing saint in the White Council, in some senses. They much prefer minds uncluttered by what they see as unnecessary folderol, and think that the worst thing they could imagine is a blend of a wizard's power with a fanatic's zeal, so if you're a saint it's not hard to make other wizards uneasy. Most saints keep their practice under discrete wraps, though there is at least one practicing saint on the Senior Council.

So, Saints are magic talented people that for whatever reason have mixed their Faith with their magic.  Less popular a path these days since it can lead to overly powerful zealots. 

And one of the Senior Council Members is one!

[groinkick]

My guess is...... hmmm  You know I don't like him but Langtry maybe?  Or LtW....  Or Gatekeeper...  lol...  Really narrowed it down there.

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My guess is...... hmmm  You know I don't like him but Langtry maybe?  Or LtW....  Or Gatekeeper...  lol...  Really narrowed it down there.

My first guess was LTW, keying off his comments about what Mother and Father were talking about just before he kicked Shaggy's butt to his ears. But in that scene he very specifically did not argue the point when Shaggy said he was not a Holy Man. 


As a sinister twist: Cristos, as a Saint and Zealot of a Dark Old God...

[groinkick]

My first guess was LTW, keying off his comments about what Mother and Father were talking about just before he kicked Shaggy's butt to his ears. But in that scene he very specifically did not argue the point when Shaggy said he was not a Holy Man. 


As a sinister twist: Cristos, as a Saint and Zealot of a Dark Old God...

Wouldn't a Saint be like used in the traditional sense by Jim as in someone who believes in a Holy deity rather than a dark old god?  I suppose that could be right but seems off.

[SerScot]

So, all the Apostles were magic users?

[Fcrate]

My money's on Liberty.
Hey. Charity Carpenter. Ding dong.

[peregrine]

Huh.  That's interesting.  It'd be weird if we saw some saint magic on screen.  Maybe a wizard focusing his magic using faith.  If not in something religious, maybe he could his faith in magic itself...

[groinkick]

Huh.  That's interesting.  It'd be weird if we saw some saint magic on screen.  Maybe a wizard focusing his magic using faith.  If not in something religious, maybe he could his faith in magic itself...

Harry has done that.  The fact that Saint's are frowned upon because of their religious beliefs sounds like it is of the spiritual variety rather than just some faith in magic.

[Fcrate]

Harry has done that.  The fact that Saint's are frowned upon because of their religious beliefs sounds like it is of the spiritual variety rather than just some faith in magic.

Did he? He has used faith magic, yes, but he didn't combine it with his normal magic that I remember.

[forumghost]

Huh.  That's interesting.  It'd be weird if we saw some saint magic on screen.  Maybe a wizard focusing his magic using faith.  If not in something religious, maybe he could his faith in magic itself...

I think it'd be more like using Faith instead of Magic to do your stuff.

Like, Michael was able to smash through a Mental Block that MAB set up with a simple prayer. Take that kind of power, and direct it with a Wizard's level of fine control, and you have a Saint.

Which could be all kinds of scary, especially if they were able to use Wizardry to start channeling Collective Faith.

At that point you'd be closer to a demigod/Avatar of a god then a mere Wizard.

[Avernite]

Harry's had enough exposure to Faith magic that I think he would've noticed if any of the Senior Councillors present in Turn Coat's island battle were Saints.

Langtry, in VERY scary circumstances in the same book, also didn't seem to need faith magic, just excellent normal magic.

In Proven Guilty, Michael's presence provided power that the present Senior Councillors could not (and Michael is all Faith).

So to me, Gatekeeper is the obvious option, and would neatly answer the question "why are the Angels not providing any help at the Outer Gates?" (answer: they actually are, in the most effective manner they know, by empowering a mortal).

[Snark Knight]

A few of Rashid's dialog lines seem to suggest he's a religious believer, although that's not definitive for him being the SC member who incorporates that into his magical practices.

[Griffyn612]

It's hard to believe that a Saint would be influenced by the ink.  You'd think that a Saint, if they were that powerful and possibly in communication with angels like Michael apparently does, would either be immune, or would be told what was happening.

That makes me think it's Rashid, who never seemed to be influenced. Not to mention all the other things that everyone else mentioned.

[groinkick]

It's hard to believe that a Saint would be influenced by the ink.  You'd think that a Saint, if they were that powerful and possibly in communication with angels like Michael apparently does, would either be immune, or would be told what was happening.

That makes me think it's Rashid, who never seemed to be influenced. Not to mention all the other things that everyone else mentioned.

Could an Angle intervene?  I dunno since it wasn't a Fallen using the Ink.  Faith based magic seems like Soulfire.  It really empowers your magic because you have such a strong belief.  I dunno if that makes you omnipotent, and can sense things.  I'd think it would just make the magic you did use very powerful.

[Fcrate]

Rashid wasn't influenced because he wasn't there. In Steed's words: He's he only other wizard here that we see less than you.
Besides, I doubt his religious beliefs can accommodate saints.