Supernatural Nations you'd like to see.

[jonas]

That's all an interpretation, and one that makes sense.  But it's not fact.  For the Norse pantheon, there's only one apocalypse (Ragnarok) that calls for the deaths of Odin and Loki and Thor, at least two of which are still alive regardless of the theory.

Now, if you wanted to argue that the series is in the middle of Ragnarok, and Aldar Rok has passed but Tiva Rok hasn't, it might make things more plausible.  I don't know the specifics of the series of events, but maybe it's possible.

*thinking man pose* Do we have any other thing for history and mythology..?

[jonas]

Simple words is Time loop btw. Everything is on a time loop, it's what a gyre is. Everything that's happening has happened before and will again, Will continue to for as long as existence is a thing in the DF verse.
It's also where Jim tied Arthur into it, the extra proof for the queens descending from Arthurian mythos, is why he has the queens labeled such. Comparatively to the Once and Future King, The one who is, is a place holder because as we know neither are the originals but changed hands close to when the gyre rotated in the middle, the twisting of what is.

[Snark Knight]

Many Ragnaroks have happened, or at least one I can evidence, Going back to Bob's original explanation of the queens whom used to be. They don't exist on our plain, can't anymore. Because they are primal spirits of what was, they are literally the Ghosts of a previous epoch.

I don't see the link. For starters, different pantheons. Also, I'm not convinced the Mothers are utterly incapable of visiting Earth. They certainly don't do it regularly, but that could be chalked up to them not wanting to warp reality, or Mother Winter not wanting to travel without her "walking stick" and Mother Summer refraining from doing so for the sake of balance.

[groinkick]

You're assuming that Ragnarok already occurred, but WoJ is that Loki is still locked up.  Ergo, he's still alive, rather than being dead like he's supposed to be after Ragnarok.  Everything points to Ragnarok not having occurred yet.

Again, what sources material?  I haven't found many translated texts.

Ragnarok isn't Odin supposed to die as well?  Last I checked he was running around kicking ass and taking names.

[Quantus]

Ragnarok isn't Odin supposed to die as well?  Last I checked he was running around kicking ass and taking names.

Everyone dies according to the myths, with the exception of a pair of characters (literally named Life and Lover of Life) whose only significance is that they will survive by hiding is a specific forrest (called Hoddmímis Holt).  Loki, Heimdall, Odin, Thor, Frey & Freya, Surtur... That's the whole point: unlike The Apocalypse which (literally by translation) is about some big Revelation, Ragnarok is "The Twilight of the Gods" as in the process and event by which they all End. 

[jonas]

I don't see the link. For starters, different pantheons. Also, I'm not convinced the Mothers are utterly incapable of visiting Earth. They certainly don't do it regularly, but that could be chalked up to them not wanting to warp reality, or Mother Winter not wanting to travel without her "walking stick" and Mother Summer refraining from doing so for the sake of balance.

*snickers to self* different pantheons? My dear Sir we have in the Fae make up no less than 3 distinct pantheon's all colliding into one, lets not forget Hecate is Greek, and the two have a direct connection to the Queens based upon Hades own defense systems. Odin is Norse but is mysteriously subplanted into a largely irish mythology which Bob's fairy wars directly links to the Vanir and aesir. Separate Pantheons indeed... and besides the noticeable lack of the main greek/roman deities who later were reformed(a reforming of identity would certainly be a Godly death/twilight btw) We have Hades talk with Harry to point to a little ahh Nemfection apparent in their continued actions and we Have Thomas's soulgaze(to which I've already well connected the heirs of the sons of Ares and Aphrodite) to show the Greek pantheon is perhaps in absentee now. It suffered the same Decay as showcased in Denton's actual mind. But Thomas's soulgaze was not purely a representation of his own mind, but of his identity as a whole.
*why do they actually warp reality though? what about them disagree's with it? Look at another example, Shagnasty, whom is an angelic ghost who violates said rules by staying on earth, he warps reality only slightly because he's not quite strong enough for more, but his fundamental existence here is described through DR as wrong in the extreme, and that's before we find out we keep such creatures amongst the rejects of reality. Shagnasty is directly described as a ghost in order for the dine, an excorsim to effect him, he's also, by the very story of the skinwalkers, is describes as from a different age where he was supposed to have 'moved on' and refused. Bringing it back to the spirits who effect reality and fate whom are not supposed to. MW has no Rent, no GreenCard and has been placed on the blacklist of do not travel, for a very good reason. A cosmic level reason.

*which is NOT to say she won't one day walk the land, and for good reason. An oh my stars and garters, the day she stands up unaided by stick or escort to walk the land is a day I actually look forward to seeing in all it's terrible glory... and sadness as we watch the one who follows. ;-(

[Griffyn612]

Ragnarok isn't Odin supposed to die as well?  Last I checked he was running around kicking ass and taking names.

That's my point.  Odin and Loki are still alive.  Ergo, Ragnarok has not yet occurred.

*snickers to self* different pantheons? My dear Sir we have in the Fae make up no less than 3 distinct pantheon's all colliding into one, lets not forget Hecate is Greek, and the two have a direct connection to the Queens based upon Hades own defense systems. Odin is Norse but is mysteriously subplanted into a largely irish mythology which Bob's fairy wars directly links to the Vanir and aesir. Separate Pantheons indeed... and besides the noticeable lack of the main greek/roman deities who later were reformed(a reforming of identity would certainly be a Godly death/twilight btw) We have Hades talk with Harry to point to a little ahh Nemfection apparent in their continued actions and we Have Thomas's soulgaze(to which I've already well connected the heirs of the sons of Ares and Aphrodite) to show the Greek pantheon is perhaps in absentee now. It suffered the same Decay as showcased in Denton's actual mind. But Thomas's soulgaze was not purely a representation of his own mind, but of his identity as a whole.
*why do they actually warp reality though? what about them disagree's with it? Look at another example, Shagnasty, whom is an angelic ghost who violates said rules by staying on earth, he warps reality only slightly because he's not quite strong enough for more, but his fundamental existence here is described through DR as wrong in the extreme, and that's before we find out we keep such creatures amongst the rejects of reality. Shagnasty is directly described as a ghost in order for the dine, an excorsim to effect him, he's also, by the very story of the skinwalkers, is describes as from a different age where he was supposed to have 'moved on' and refused. Bringing it back to the spirits who effect reality and fate whom are not supposed to. MW has no Rent, no GreenCard and has been placed on the blacklist of do not travel, for a very good reason. A cosmic level reason.

*which is NOT to say she won't one day walk the land, and for good reason. An oh my stars and garters, the day she stands up unaided by stick or escort to walk the land is a day I actually look forward to seeing in all it's terrible glory... and sadness as we watch the one who follows. ;-(

wut.

I think it's a case of JB's classical use of the word Catholic.  As in universal, all-encompassing.  All the pantheons are part of the whole.  Some might overlap, while others stand apart.  But they're all connected at the root.

None of that means that Ragnarok has already occurred, though.  There's no reason to believe that Odin died and came back.  There's no reason to believe Vadderung is Thor.  Are either possible?  Sure.  But I don't think there's been evidence for either.  Just because the Sidhe change hosts doesn't mean everyone does, or can, or will.

[jonas]

That's my point.  Odin and Loki are still alive.  Ergo, Ragnarok has not yet occurred.
wut.

I think it's a case of JB's classical use of the word Catholic.  As in universal, all-encompassing.  All the pantheons are part of the whole.  Some might overlap, while others stand apart.  But they're all connected at the root.

None of that means that Ragnarok has already occurred, though.  There's no reason to believe that Odin died and came back.  There's no reason to believe Vadderung is Thor. Are either possible?  Sure.  But I don't think there's been evidence for either.  Just because the Sidhe change hosts doesn't mean everyone does, or can, or will.

Sure there is, there's plenty of reason... but how deep down the rabbit hole can you really go though? There's no reason to appose the idea either, so unless I can get to the root of why you do we'll just dance all night lol.

(click to show/hide)

We'd have to go back to how Harry goes backward in time through a pentagram spellframe in MM to get back to his timeline and how in doing so he will have saved other versions of himself who all come together at the end to go back in time as 'merlin' to simultaneously restart reality spinning off five different versions of the main characters whom are directly effected by the spirit of belief of those reborn timelines into one entwined reality, five positive pantheons of all characters that possess direct similarities and begin to believe what they are just as the angels do[woj citation] and that fact this process then repeats itself spinning of endless layers of spirit around reality while those that fail out all tend to go into the same shadow formations, nebulous forms from beyond existence with the previous successful generation all pooling resources to help the next geration along their journey or otherwise ensure they take the correct path from their starborn star into reality and Blah, blah, blah.... I only come here anymore in the hope of meeting someone else with the Sight. ;-(

[exartiem]

Like I said, "ung" means "ing".  The full translation would be "Thor Fathering".  He that fathered Thor.

Unless, of course, you want to interpret it differently, and say Thor obtained his father's mantle, and he's now "Fathering" it up.   

I looked it up.  Ung means young in Norwegian, not ing.  So it might translate as "Thor, Young-Father."  Young Father as opposed to All-father.

[groinkick]

I looked it up.  Ung means young in Norwegian, not ing.  So it might translate as "Thor, Young-Father."  Young Father as opposed to All-father.

Jim has called Vadderung "The all father".  So I'm not thinking he's Thor, unless he has his own son's Mantle.

I like 2 theories about Thor. 

1. Mr. Hendricks is Thor (also explains his relationship with Gard)
2. (My theory from a long time ago I think?) Michael or his wife are of relation to Thor.  Main reason is because Michael was using a Thor hammer as a bottle opener...  Don't know if it has any meaning or not, or some foreshadowing that Thor will be making an appearance later.

[jonas]

That was more about the swords and how they can be remade... Bout positive Mjolnir comes from/evolved into the sword of hope.

[Griffyn612]

I looked it up.  Ung means young in Norwegian, not ing.  So it might translate as "Thor, Young-Father."  Young Father as opposed to All-father.

Donar and Vadder aren't Norwegian, they're German.  The German meaning for -ung is "ing".

Jim has called Vadderung "The all father".  So I'm not thinking he's Thor, unless he has his own son's Mantle.

I like 2 theories about Thor. 

1. Mr. Hendricks is Thor (also explains his relationship with Gard)
2. (My theory from a long time ago I think?) Michael or his wife are of relation to Thor.  Main reason is because Michael was using a Thor hammer as a bottle opener...  Don't know if it has any meaning or not, or some foreshadowing that Thor will be making an appearance later.

Don't forget Charity used a hammer on the Arctic Tor door.

[Quantus]

Don't forget Charity used a hammer on the Arctic Tor door.

I guess but her Hammer-awesome is forge related.  Thor would be crossing tropes 

[Griffyn612]

I guess but her Hammer-awesome is forge related.  Thor would be crossing tropes 

Yeah, we'd never see Thor working in a forge to, like, I don't know, make a weapon or something.   

[groinkick]

Yeah, we'd never see Thor working in a forge to, like, I don't know, make a weapon or something.   

There is the possibility that Thor no longer has his Mantle...  Perhaps the foreshadowing being shown here is that Charity will have it one day, and kicking ass along side her Sword wielding husband.  I guess Michael could get it but it seems more like Charity if Jim used foreshadowing.