Author Topic: Cowl is Justin reboot  (Read 24131 times)

Offline Kindler

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2018, 01:05:14 PM »
About Starbon being the only ones able to open the Outer Gates.
There is a law of magic: Thou Shalt Not Open the Outer Gates.
It implies that anyone can.
Mainly an academic difference, but the text I've seen of the Seventh Law is "Thou shalt not Seek beyond the Outer Gates." To me, that's about summoning Outsiders, not opening the Gates themselves. Not like it would make much of a difference; pretty sure the Council would come down harder on anyone who tried. Still, it applies to research along with summoning. So I guess technically Harry has broken that Law a bunch of times in Cold Days.

Offline raidem

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2018, 02:21:59 PM »
I'm fairly certain it is established either via woj and/or text that Maggie intended Harry to be Starborn.  Lash says Harry was born to wield power over Outsiders.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2018, 02:26:11 PM »
So Elaine was part of Maggie's plan too?
And I still don't accept as gospel that Maggie was trying to create a Starborn.


Way back in Summer Knight when Ebenezar was introducing Harry to Martha Liberty and LtW to ask for their support in the vote, didn't Martha say something to Eb along the lines of "You know what he was meant to be"?

Offline Talby16

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2018, 04:22:31 PM »

Way back in Summer Knight when Ebenezar was introducing Harry to Martha Liberty and LtW to ask for their support in the vote, didn't Martha say something to Eb along the lines of "You know what he was meant to be"?

I took that to mean he was meant to be Justin's enforcer/thug thus could not be trusted.

Offline peregrine

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2018, 04:33:43 PM »
I'm fairly certain it is established either via woj and/or text that Maggie intended Harry to be Starborn.  Lash says Harry was born to wield power over Outsiders.
She said that he does, due to the circumstances of his birth.  I don't recall anything that she says that was his purpose or intent.

Offline raidem

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2018, 04:50:21 PM »
This really isn't in response to your reply but it had me run across this.
Quote
Q:  When will we learn more about Maggie?
A:  It will be little bits at a time, like we’re learning now.  But eventually we will find out that what we’ve been told so far is only accurate from a certain point of view.  It will all have a different meaning once we’ve learned the whole story.
2010 Lee’s Summit signing
Q:  Should Harry’s first deal with Lea been covered by Maggie’s deal?
A:  Not really.  One problem is that Harry dealt with Lea the way that one would deal with another human, so he really didn’t get much out of the bargain besides some confidence.  Lea gave him the “magic feather” so to speak.
And, Maggie could have done a little better job on her deal with Lea, but she was kind of in a rush, so she wasn’t as detailed as she should have been.
2009 Kansas City Q&A @37:15
Are we ever going to learn more about Maggie?
Yah you will find out more about her as we go.  In bits and pieces.  The problem with her running around doing secret things is no one knows what she was doing.
2010 Mysterious Galaxy Q&A
Do you have it planned out who Harry's grandmother is? @6:05
Yes... Well she's not alive any more.
Was she significant?
Well, she was a mortal.  That was about it.
Editor's note:  There's a 2011 WoJ Where Jim says if he remembers right, she died around 1810
After discussing Harry's Grandmother:@8:15
Harry's mom was around for a good long while before she had him.  I think she was a hundred and something.
2011 NYC Signing Q&A
Any word on Harry’s mother and whether she’s going to make it back?
No, they did a good job on her. Although they didn’t do a good enough job  as evidenced by the fact that her kids are wrecking people’s plans left and right.

If this is right then it seems reasonable that Harry's mother was rather old when she had Harry. And, I'm talking a couple hundred years old.  It seems likely to me that Maggie Sr. had plenty of time to have other kids.

I might have to revisit my theory that Marcone has an origin in time travel with Harry and Murphy/Mab as his parents.  Maybe Maggie Sr. is his mother, which would make Harry his half brother, who is another one of Maggie Sr. "kids wrecking people's plans left and right."
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 04:59:25 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Lost Merlin

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2018, 06:31:56 PM »
wasn't there a WOJ that there was no more Dresden Siblings? I'll see what I can do to dig it up. 

But then again can we really trust any WoJ? :/


Offline raidem

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2018, 08:57:16 PM »
Any more Dresden siblings at what point and from what perspective.  I mean he did already introduce Marcone at some point. So...

I just find it hard to believe that a woman is going to wait until she is 150+ years old until she is going to have her first kid.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 08:59:19 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2018, 10:47:18 PM »
I think it is very possible that Justin found a potential starborn (Harry) son of an associate and made a potential starborn (Elaine).
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Offline forumghost

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2018, 11:19:17 PM »
Any more Dresden siblings at what point and from what perspective.  I mean he did already introduce Marcone at some point. So...

I just find it hard to believe that a woman is going to wait until she is 150+ years old until she is going to have her first kid.

I don't. Not for a Woman like Maggie Sr, who probably never intended to have kids at all. (Thomas was an accident, Harry was a WMD)

Offline peregrine

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2018, 12:00:33 AM »
Any more Dresden siblings at what point and from what perspective.  I mean he did already introduce Marcone at some point. So...

I just find it hard to believe that a woman is going to wait until she is 150+ years old until she is going to have her first kid.
You think she's going to wait until she's 150+ to get married?

Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2018, 01:22:35 AM »
Any more Dresden siblings at what point and from what perspective.  I mean he did already introduce Marcone at some point. So...
I just find it hard to believe that a woman is going to wait until she is 150+ years old until she is going to have her first kid.

She was probably doing like the Gatekeeper, spending a lot of her life in the "slow lane" areas of the NN to be a lot younger than the chronological time since she was born. Throw wizard aging into it, and it's not that extreme.

Offline KurtinStGeorge

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2018, 08:55:43 AM »

Way back in Summer Knight when Ebenezar was introducing Harry to Martha Liberty and LtW to ask for their support in the vote, didn't Martha say something to Eb along the lines of "You know what he was meant to be"?

That reminds me there was one thing I left out of my summary about what we know and don't know and Justin.  It's something will all know, but I think it's easy to forget; Justin was Simon Pietrovich's apprentice.  Those readers who think Justin is still alive see him as the likely culprit who told the Red Court how to disable or defeat Simon's wards.  Of course, because Harry had been Justin's apprentice it was suggested by Senior Council member LaFortier that Harry was the guilty party.

However, to get to your post, I don't think we know what Martha Liberty meant by that statement.  I don't think she meant that Harry was meant to be Justin's enforcer.  The fact that Harry rebelled against Justin would seem to weigh against that interpretation.  Also, even in a worse case scenario, if Harry had gone bad at a young age, how is one more Warlock a danger to the White Council?  The Council must have been afraid that Harry was something special, but in a very bad way.

One more thing to consider.  If the White Council learned that Harry is starborn, we don't know whether that is a good thing or a bad thing from the Council's perspective.  Past starborn individuals may have catalysts for great destruction or seen as enemies of the Council, or at least enemies of the established order.  I keep thinking about Mother Winter referring to Harry as a weapon, in Cold Days.  Maybe the Senior Council saw Harry that way too, only they thought he was a major weapon that could be pointed at them, not just at Outsiders.  Now that I think about it, the Senior Council might not even know Harry; or any starborn individual, can wield power over Outsiders.  Just because Lash and Margaret LeFey knew this, it doesn't mean it's general knowledge in the magical world.   

 
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Offline peregrine

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2018, 02:47:25 PM »
Note that Jim has said that there's a lot that the Senior Council knows but doesn't know it knows.  They've got the data, but they haven't yet sat down and gone through it to make conclusions and analyze it yet.  Which may include things like Harry being Starborn.  Things like knowing his date of birth, and whatever else, but have yet to actually put it together.

Offline Lost Merlin

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Re: Cowl is Justin reboot
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2018, 06:03:52 PM »
Any more Dresden siblings at what point and from what perspective.  I mean he did already introduce Marcone at some point. So...

I just find it hard to believe that a woman is going to wait until she is 150+ years old until she is going to have her first kid.

Here is the WoJ I was looking for.  Again in so much as you can trust WoJ's any more.  I think this one is probably a definitive no, but being almost 10 years ago we don't know how the story has changed. 

Some 2008 booksigning pulled off of youtube:
Quote
Do Harry and Thomas have any other siblings out there?
NO