Previous Warden theory

[groinkick]

Where was the previous Warden?  Well perhaps this Warden was killed...  Perhaps SHE was killed by an entropy curse....  Harry's mom...  She used her knowledge of the Island to form who own little prison to lock up Lord Wraith's demon.  Because it was done remotely, from the hospital she couldn't lock him up on DemonReach but did the next best thing.

She was also the one who helped grant Gray his freedom from DemonReach.

[exartiem]

I am under the impression that the last Warden of Demonreach was Gatekeeper, and he quit, which is why the island holds a grudge against him.

[peregrine]

I am under the impression that the last Warden of Demonreach was Gatekeeper, and he quit, which is why the island holds a grudge against him.

Jim has said that is not why DR doesn't like him.  Or rather, the reason he gave was something different from GK quitting, though it doesn't technically preclude that from having happened too.

[Griffyn612]

The problem I have with GK being the previous Warden is that I can't really see him being both W and GK at the same time.  Maybe he could have been W before becoming GK.  But since he's been GK for a thousand years or more, that would mean the Well hasn't had a W for that long.  Which seems too long.

The problem I have with Margaret being the previous Warden is that the place seems to have been rundown for a while.  Humans settled on the island within the last hundred years to make the cannery.  Either she came to it after the cannery had failed, or she came to it early and abandoned her duty.

On the plus side, she was shacked up with Raith somewhere, and it might have been at his Chicago residence.  That'd possibly put her in the area. 

[jonas]

Time is a perspective apparently. Remember Woj Dante Algera(?)'s father was the previous GK? Dante's inferno was written 14th century iirc? the timeline for him being a previous GK son is way off considering current GK's mortal existence. But if we're only perceiving previous realities as part of our history I could see the sliding scale mushing in such a way(oh.... and outsiders used to be demons!!!)

[Mira]

I am under the impression that the last Warden of Demonreach was Gatekeeper, and he quit, which is why the island holds a grudge against him.

That has been a theory, but I'm under the impression that Jim knocked it down.... However I could be wrong about that.

[Quantus]

That has been a theory, but I'm under the impression that Jim knocked it down.... However I could be wrong about that.

He knocked down that being a previous Warden was the reason for the grudge (which was stated to be because "[rashid] focused the tank").  I dont know that he ever formally shot down the possibility that Rashid was not a former Warden under more general context. 

I personally think it highly unlikely for two reasons: 1) we know Rashid has been around at least long enough to have known the original merlin (by best the bracket of time we've narrowed The Original Merlin's time to, anyway) and 2) we know by WOJ the last Gatekeeper was Alighiero di Bellincione whose son is famous for writing Dante's Inferno.  Given those two things it just seems unlikely that he would have been tapped for /both/ of those very critical roles, or that he would have set aside one for the other or anything that would explain the shft. 

[Rasins]

My personal theory is that Kemmler was the previous WARDEN.

When the Council was taking Kemmler down, one of the times, probably the last one, is when Rashid "Focused the Tank" and pissed DR off, by distracting DR from protecting his WARDEN.

Absent any other evidence, I'm sticking with that one.

[Talby16]

My personal theory is that Kemmler was the previous WARDEN.

When the Council was taking Kemmler down, one of the times, probably the last one, is when Rashid "Focused the Tank" and pissed DR off, by distracting DR from protecting his WARDEN.

Absent any other evidence, I'm sticking with that one.

I like that theory except for one minor issue. If Kemmler had access to a prison fill of dangerous creatures, why didn't he release some during the attack to divide/hurt the WC? I can think up some explanations:1) since we do not know the particulars of that battle anything could have happened including the release of inmates, 2) Kemmler was somehow prevented from releasing inmates, 3) The process of releasing inmates was too involved so Kemmler couldn't do it during a battle, or 4) Kemmler actually had some standards and recognized the folly of releasing inmates (unlikely). Any of these explanations are possible, but they don't really satisfy me. I believe that if Kemmler had access to DR he would make use of it to further his own thirst for power.

[peregrine]

My personal theory is that Kemmler was the previous WARDEN.

When the Council was taking Kemmler down, one of the times, probably the last one, is when Rashid "Focused the Tank" and pissed DR off, by distracting DR from protecting his WARDEN.

Absent any other evidence, I'm sticking with that one.

Focusing the Tank is something that is bad to your team, not the Tank's team.  The tank is there to be focused upon.  GK focusing the tank would not be what draws DR's ire so much as just being on the other side.

[Quantus]

Focusing the Tank is something that is bad to your team, not the Tank's team.  The tank is there to be focused upon.  GK focusing the tank would not be what draws DR's ire so much as just being on the other side.

That depends on perspective, and how much abstract "I wish you had done X" sort of grudge Alfred is even capable of.  "Focusing the Tank" is a term for a tactical mistake, sure, but in the DV context it could mean that Rashid did something (ill-advised) to gain DR's specific attention/Ire during whatever mission against DR, as opposed to DR being on Rashid's team somehow and holding a long-term grudge because it disagrees with Rashid's tactical Choice. Which seems like waaay too abstract and specific a thought for him to have regarding mortals or his view on the Past and Future.  He was barely able to recognize one mortal vs another or grasp time in shrter than geological scales; it seems a lot more...human for him to have that sort of What-If grudge.  It just feels out of place for be Demonreach to be saying "way back that time, I reaaally wish you'd gone Left instead of Right, if you had gone Left our Party wouldn't have wiped. FOR SHAME!"

[Rasins]

I could totally believe that Rashid kept DR busy while the rest of the Wouncil took down Kemmler. 

Another possibility is that Rashid prevented Kemmler from releasing some inmate, being the Warden, DR took umbrage at his interfering with the WARDEN's work.  How exactly that fits in with "focus the tank" I don't know, but then, this is the only place I've heard the phrase (from Jim).

[groinkick]

So that's a no as Harry's mom being Warden I guess?

[Quantus]

So that's a no as Harry's mom being Warden I guess?

Nah, Id day it's just solidified into a Maybe.  There was always that one line in TC that seemed to Juxtapose the two, making it reasonable (if not my own preferred theory) that she was at some point tapped to be the Warden somewhere, Id assume prior to her going on the run form the wardens, but I could be wrong.  For all we know, the person she killed with magic to piss off the Wardens was the previous Warden and she managed to (briefly) Take that role on her own initiative much like Harry did. 

To my mind the biggest point against basically all these theories is the strong implication in TC that Ancient Mai has NOT been read in to the full story and significance of Demonreach.  Being the "Ancient" of the Council, somebody even Rashid bows to, I dont think it likely that she'd have been so uninvolved as to entirely miss out on that sort of event. 

[kazimmoinuddin]

Kemmler was a huge evil threat, said to have many truly dark allies. Some of which would be the type to be confined in the well. So it makes sense for the warden to be involved in the conflict.