Did Harry focus the Tank?

[Kindler]

All of this talk is making me miss Dark Age of Camelot. I still feel like I'm the only one who ever played that game.

[Lost Merlin]

I played and loved it.  I wish they would just make it a free game so that I can play (cant justify 13 dollars a month on a game I would play only a few hours a week if that).  Minus ToA of course. 

Mid - Valk
Alb - Cleric and Cabalist
Hib - Sucked so I didn't play that. 

[Kindler]

I played and loved it.  I wish they would just make it a free game so that I can play (cant justify 13 dollars a month on a game I would play only a few hours a week if that).  Minus ToA of course. 

Mid - Valk
Alb - Cleric and Cabalist
Hib - Sucked so I didn't play that.

I quit sometime after the first expansion to jump into Dungeons and Dragons Online. I loved my Albion Armsman, and the Reaver was a lot of fun. Played a Theurgist for a while, but everyone just wanted me for Bladeturn, which got boring.

You know they've successfully funded a new game, right? The original developers from Mythic got back together to make Camelot Unchained, as a kind of spiritual successor. Looks like they're keeping a whole lot of the original stuff. Beta starts in a few months, if I remember right.

[Lost Merlin]

I didn't know I will have to take a look at it.  I loved the PvP aspect of the game.  Things were balanced some what even if certain classes were op there was always a counter. 

[knnn]

So here's my take:

We have two datapoints:

1) In Turn Coat, Harry makes a certain connection between Rashid's mention of a grudge and the limp that Demonreach appears to have.

2) WoJ that the limp was caused by a glacier and Rashid "focused the tank" (which I personally take to mean that Rashid and DR were on the same side).

------------

First thing is, how could a glacier affect Demonreach?

a) Either Demonreach was created before the glacier appeared -- kinda hard since the last time the glaciers retreated was ~20,000 years ago.   Granted the original Merlin did some timey-wimey stuff during creation, but still, Merlin himself was around ~1500 years ago, so why build Demonreach already wounded?

b) The second (and more likely IMHO) is that Demonreach got wounded with a glacier *after* it was created.    How did this happen?   Again, timey-wimey stuff.   We've seen in Cold Days that the way to attack Demonreach is through some time-related magic.    Obviously there was a previous assault.   Consider the following notion:   The bad guys cast a spell to divert a glacier 20,000 years ago so that it will overrun the foundations of Demonreach, retroactively weakening/destroying him.

For bonus points, take a look at the Amber Chronicles  (either book 9 or 10) where someone tries to attack Corwin's Pattern in a similar manner.   Jim's extensive connection with the Amberverse might be a clue here.

-------->

So if Demonreach was being attacked with time-related magic, maybe Rashid didn't make his top priority stopping the spell -- attacking things in "real time" instead.   This ultimately worked (Demonreach is still standing), but Demonreach did get partially injured, which is why it still holds a grudge.

Final note is that Rashid might have well known that he was doing thing inefficiently, but had different priorities.   As an example, if innocent lives were at stake, Rashid might have preferred to prioritize saving them, knowing that Demonreach can take a beating.

[Quantus]

So here's my take:

We have two datapoints:

1) In Turn Coat, Harry makes a certain connection between Rashid's mention of a grudge and the limp that Demonreach appears to have.

2) WoJ that the limp was caused by a glacier and Rashid "focused the tank" (which I personally take to mean that Rashid and DR were on the same side).

------------

First thing is, how could a glacier affect Demonreach?

a) Either Demonreach was created before the glacier appeared -- kinda hard since the last time the glaciers retreated was ~20,000 years ago.   Granted the original Merlin did some timey-wimey stuff during creation, but still, Merlin himself was around ~1500 years ago, so why build Demonreach already wounded?

b) The second (and more likely IMHO) is that Demonreach got wounded with a glacier *after* it was created.    How did this happen?   Again, timey-wimey stuff.   We've seen in Cold Days that the way to attack Demonreach is through some time-related magic.    Obviously there was a previous assault.   Consider the following notion:   The bad guys cast a spell to divert a glacier 20,000 years ago so that it will overrun the foundations of Demonreach, retroactively weakening/destroying him.

For bonus points, take a look at the Amber Chronicles  (either book 9 or 10) where someone tries to attack Corwin's Pattern in a similar manner.   Jim's extensive connection with the Amberverse might be a clue here.

-------->

So if Demonreach was being attacked with time-related magic, maybe Rashid didn't make his top priority stopping the spell -- attacking things in "real time" instead.   This ultimately worked (Demonreach is still standing), but Demonreach did get partially injured, which is why it still holds a grudge.

Final note is that Rashid might have well known that he was doing thing inefficiently, but had different priorities.   As an example, if innocent lives were at stake, Rashid might have preferred to prioritize saving them, knowing that Demonreach can take a beating.

3rd Option on Demonreach:  The Genus Loci (and the Limp) predate the creation of the Well itself, and was presumably one of the reasons that site was chosen. 

[raidem]

For bonus points, take a look at the Amber Chronicles  (either book 9 or 10) where someone tries to attack Corwin's Pattern in a similar manner.   Jim's extensive connection with the Amberverse might be a clue here.

Wait, didn't they try to use Earthquakes to destroy Corwin's Pattern?

I think you got it Knnn, or at least partially.  Team Bad attempted to use natural forces to injure/destroy Demonreach. 

This lends credence to my belief that something important is being guarded near Demonreach, near Yggdrasil on the Planar Level.  It is something that is similar to Corwin's Pattern that lies near Yggdrasil.  And we do know that Yggdrasil and Demonreach seem to intersect with Yggdrasil's roots reaching toward Demonreach's prison. 

[Lost Merlin]

Do we know that the limp was caused maliciously? Could it be that the island used to be larger or connected to the mainland, but was cut away by a glacier naturally? This would cause the Genus Loci was 'stranded' and cut off from what used to be a much larger area/domain.  This would explain why even with the well spring, the Genus Loci is so powerful as well?

[Kindler]

I think that Demonreach, as the genius loci of the island, is a personification of what the island is and what it has been through. When Merlin "built" Demonreach, he pulled resources that were already there. The island remembers the damage that was done to it by the glacier, so that damage is built into the personification as well.

[Lost Merlin]

I am getting two different thoughts here from this, maybe you could help me understand.

 The last sentence makes sense to me. 

The island remembers the damage that was done to it by the glacier, so that damage is built into the personification as well.

This is the part that has me confused. 

I think that Demonreach, as the genius loci of the island, is a personification of what the island is and what it has been through. When Merlin "built" Demonreach, he pulled resources that were already there.

Are you insinuating that Merlin was responsible for building the Genius Loci as well as the prison on Demonreach?

[Quantus]

I am getting two different thoughts here from this, maybe you could help me understand.

 The last sentence makes sense to me.   

This is the part that has me confused. 

Are you insinuating that Merlin was responsible for building the Genius Loci as well as the prison on Demonreach?

I think it was the opposite, that the Merlin used a Genus Loci that was already present. 

[raidem]

This is Merlin in the Amber series defeating an attack by the Logrus (Chaos) on Corwin's Pattern (Corwin is Merlin's father).  Merlin is a son of both Order and Chaos, who later becomes King of Chaos. Corwin created a new universe/multiverse in walking/creating his Pattern while the Prime Pattern existed. As to parallels on identity of Merlin with Amber chronicles, they may be two distinct people with same name.  If same person, then whoever sired Merlin would be the 'creator' in a sense of this multiverse.  It also follows that the bloodline of this 'creator' is extremely important to undue the multiverse.  In my guess guess that Corwin is Mac, Mac would have functional immortality and invincibility even on Halloween, etc, etc.  He is safeguarded as 'god/God of this multiverse' as long as the multiverse exists. Only the person who created the "Corwin Pattern" or "Dresdenverse Pattern" would have this innate protection.  The first few of his generations blood would only be what could damage it.

(click to show/hide)

"We seem to have a problem," he said, "with rather extreme ramifications." The ground shook once again, twigs and leaves fell about us, pebbles bounced, dust rose, the fogs were agitated.I heard a dish break in the vicinity of the heavy red and white cloth about which Luke, Dalt, Coral, and Nayda sat eating. I drew them back on.There came another tremor, and I leaned against the tree for support. "Or is something bigger about to eat it?" Then, "Back when I drew the Pattern," he said, "I'd no way of knowing that this area was faulted, or that something like this would one day occur.  If these shocks should crack the Pattern, we've had it-in more ways than one. As I understand it, that spikard you wear can draw upon enormous sources of energy.Is there some way you could use it to defuse this thing?"
"I never tried anything like it." "Find out fast, okay?" he said. Then I seized upon the one possessed of the most juice, drew hard upon it, filled myself, body and mind, with its energy.  Ignition completed and engine idling, with me in the driver's seat, I shifted into gear then, extending a line of force from the spikard down into the ground. I reached for a long while, seeking a conversion metaphor to the subjective for anything I might discover. Wading out from the beach into the oceanwaves tickling my stomach, my chest-feeling with my toes the rocks, the strands of sea-weed...Sometimes a rock would turn, slip, bump against another, slide... But I saw the rocks, the wrack, in their disposition and movement, just the same, beheld them as clearly as if the bottom were fully illuminated. Feeling, feeling my way now, down through the strata, single toe soft as a flashlight's beam running along rocky surfaces, testing the pressures of one upon another, isostatic kisses of mountains beneath the earth, orogenic erogenies of slow movement, flesh caressing mineral in the darkest of secret places My body follows... I race ahead, pouring forth heat, cracking rock, splintering new pathways, outward, outward....It was coming this way. I broke through a wall of stone, another.  Another. I was not certain this was the way to divert it, but it was the only one I knew to try.  Go that way! Damn it! That way! I accessed two more channels, a third, a fourth I opened another channel.  Within my metaphor the rocks grew stable beneath the waters. Shortly thereafter, the ground ceased its vibration. Feel it, feel it carefully.  Describe a vector. Follow.  Follow it to the point of original pressure. But no.  This point is but a confluence of vectors. Trace them. More junctions.  Trace them. Access more channels.  The entire pressure structure, intricate as a nervous system, must be described. I must hold its tree within my mind. It may not be possible.  I may be courting infinity in my topographic branchings. Freeze frame.  Simplify the problem. Ignore everything beyond the tertiary.  Trace to the next junction. There are some loops.  Good. And a plate is now involved.  Better. No good.  Too big a picture to contain. Discard tertiaries. Yes. Vectors of transmission simply drawn-back to plate, almost.  Pressure exerted less than full pressure extended. Why? Additional point of input along second vector, redirecting shear forces this valley. "Merlin? Are you all right?" "Let me be," I hear my voice respond. Extend then, input source, into, feeling, transmission signature... Is this a Logrus that I see before me? I opened three more channels, focused on the area, began heating it. My newly created magma flowed down fault lines.  A hollowed-out area occurred at the point whence the precipitating force had originated. Back. I withdrew my probes, shut down the spikard. "What did you do?" he asked me. There's a small grotto there now.If it collapses it may ease the pressure even more." "So you've stabilized it?" I don't know the limits of the Logrus, but it's going to have to figure a new route to reach this place.Then it's going to have to test it out. And if it's doing a lot of Pattern watching just now, that may slow it." "Of course, the Pattern may move against us next." "I've brought everyone here because I thought they'd be safe from both Powers." "Apparently you made the payoff worth the risk." "I guess it's time to give them some other things to worry about." "Such as?" I looked at him, Pattern ghost of my father, guardian of this place.

The above text points out that Corwin unknowingly built his Pattern upon an Earthquake fault. In parallel to Amber Chronicles, Demonreach Prison was built on an area susceptible to glaciers.  This then could tie into time travel attacks on Demonreach with glaciers being one part of teh equation. However I'd say glaciers are part of the natural state of things and formation of topography, there still could be an unnatural attack could have used the same.  So, I do think there was a glacier that was part of the assault on Demonreach that wasn't simply 'natural'.  This would then be consistent with Harry linking Rashid to Demonreach's limp and subsequent link of his limp to glacier.

[Kindler]

I think it was the opposite, that the Merlin used a Genus Loci that was already present.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Genius Loci can appear naturally, from what I remember. I think that Merlin's construction of The Well included changing the genus loci into something with greater awareness, and with a specific job.

[Lost Merlin]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Genius Loci can appear naturally, from what I remember. I think that Merlin's construction of The Well included changing the genus loci into something with greater awareness, and with a specific job.

I think it was the opposite, that the Merlin used a Genus Loci that was already present. 

Thanks makes more sense that way. 

[raidem]

You know, it seemed like the island or was it just the Prison was said to have been "placed there."

“What I mean,” he said, “is that I know about your island. I know where it came from. I know what it does. I know what’s beneath it.” “Uh,” I said. “Oh.” “I’m aware of how important it is that the island be well managed. Most of the people who came to your party in Mexico are.” By which he meant the Grey Council.

To me, it seems like Demonreach Island was transported to the Lake from somewhere else.  It may have come from something near Avalon.