Cold Days: Attack on Demonreach

[Mira]

I didn't mean to suggest it was 'that' bird. Or that particular species.  I was just saying in general Harry heard a bird and he looked about and saw Kringle walking to him.  Therefore the wards were down, Halloween had ended.  It wasn't even the first bird or necessarily strict confirmation of the rule, as Mab had recently departed with both Ladies and had conversed with Kringle, etc.  The rule concerning first bird most likely aligns with the precise rule, but there still can be a bit of fuzziness.  Hey there might be a 'cosmic' bird that decides these things not one on Earth. In mythology there actually are roosters whose crowing mean things.

It is my impression that it was daylight by then, birds and roosters begin much earlier.

[Quantus]

It is my impression that it was daylight by then, birds and roosters begin much earlier.

Well, the Rooster bit is mostly a myth, those bastards sound off whenever they damn well feel like it 

[Mira]

Well, the Rooster bit is mostly a myth, those bastards sound off whenever they damn well feel like it 

Indeed they do, I grew up and a chicken ranch...   Also if different birds sing at all hours of the night, so "when the birds sing" means nothing unless you know the species of bird.. 

[raidem]

I argue that the real rule is a cosmic bird that sounds the end of the day or at least a special day like Halloween whereby immortals become mortal.  I say this because it shouldn't just be one time zones bird that decides the end of it.

[peregrine]

Which does raise a good point.  Maybe it's each time zone's bird.  Or even each "area."  That the first birdsong in range counts, but if you're a few hundred miles away, you've got some extra time.

Which then brings up the question of what about places that have no birds at all.

I don't think there's some Ur-bird that does it, otherwise Bob wouldn't have listed the multiple options, but does the first bird song of England cut things short for California?

A better option would probably be dawn or dusk or something.

[raidem]

I don't think Bob may have the 'exact' rule correct. 

There needs to be a cosmic rule to apply for mortality vs immortality.

[groinkick]

Interesting fact....   Harry Houdini died on Halloween... 

[Quantus]

Which does raise a good point.  Maybe it's each time zone's bird.  Or even each "area."  That the first birdsong in range counts, but if you're a few hundred miles away, you've got some extra time.

Which then brings up the question of what about places that have no birds at all.

I don't think there's some Ur-bird that does it, otherwise Bob wouldn't have listed the multiple options, but does the first bird song of England cut things short for California?

A better option would probably be dawn or dusk or something.

Theoretically Dawn and Dusk could be equally as subjective and prone to local variation (from topography if nothing else).  I think Id be ok with it being a bit more of a local effect, bubbles of Night 'popping' into Day around Birds adn overlapping until it becomes continuous effect, as opposed to a hard line waving across the world.  I can also be ok with Bob's description being accurate to how it works in the American Midwest, but that there exists some other trigger event in bird-less climates, out in the ocean, etc. 

[raidem]

And what would happen if all birds become extinct?

This is why I think Bob's rule isn't the exact rule that is taking place behind the scenes.  The 'first' bird is just attuned to the rule.  In the absence of any birds, there may be something else that has an effect by being attuned to it.  I mean think of some of the rules of physics. We have generic equations that work in most conditions but when stretched to extreme conditions these generic equations are proved false and we now need better equations to model what works.  The 'first bird crow/birdsong' is a generic rule which then gets replaced by some other model.

A better option would probably be dawn or dusk or something.

This is a better option, some wave that sweeps over the Earth, but this would require a sweeping mortality/immortality wave on Halloween.  If immortals want to continue on with their feeding, they'd need to keep up with this wave until the entire conjunction ceases for all portions of Earth.

It seems the end of the day is something that lags dawn but during the night/early morning.  (you can get further discrepancies at the polar regions where you get near all light 'days' or the opposite.

[Quantus]

And what would happen if all birds become extinct?

This is why I think Bob's rule isn't the exact rule that is taking place behind the scenes.  The 'first' bird is just attuned to the rule.  In the absence of any birds, there may be something else that has an effect by being attuned to it.  I mean think of some of the rules of physics. We have generic equations that work in most conditions but when stretched to extreme conditions these generic equations are proved false and we now need better equations to model what works.  The 'first bird crow/birdsong' is a generic rule which then gets replaced by some other model.

That seems reasonable to me, it's more or less like the Stars for Conjuctions; they arent involved at all in the Cause-effect of it, they are just a reasonably reliable measuring stick for it.  It's mentioned that magically sensitive people can just /feel/ the change of Day and Night, so it would not be out of the question for Birds to simply be naturally sensitive to the feel of that Transition, like dogs detecting earthquakes

[Kindler]

Interesting fact....   Harry Houdini died on Halloween...

And that's why psychics have never been able to verifiably raise his spirit.

[Quantus]

And that's why psychics have never been able to verifiably raise his spirit.

Yup.  He clearly Ascended to something...

[wardenferry419]

Sorceror Supreme?

[Quantus]

Soooo, did a little research.  He died of acute pancreatitis that he refused to treat, opting to instead travel on to the next town for the next show rather than have the immediate surgery the doctors told him he needed.  Most believe that the condition was caused by an incident the week before where a "fan" got backstage and wanted to test Houdini's reputed "invulnerability" by more or less walking up and repeatedly punching Houdini in the abdomen while he was sitting on a couch.  By separate accounts Houdini wasnt so much ambushed as surprised by the number and strength of the guy's punches.

So if this was an ascension ritual, it was a damn weird on.   Seems more like he got sacrificed to someone(thing?) 

[Kindler]

Soooo, did a little research.  He died of acute pancreatitis that he refused to treat, opting to instead travel on to the next town for the next show rather than have the immediate surgery the doctors told him he needed.  Most believe that the condition was caused by an incident the week before where a "fan" got backstage and wanted to test Houdini's reputed "invulnerability" by more or less walking up and repeatedly punching Houdini in the abdomen while he was sitting on a couch.  By separate accounts Houdini wasnt so much ambushed as surprised by the number and strength of the guy's punches.

So if this was an ascension ritual, it was a damn weird on.   Seems more like he got sacrificed to someone(thing?) 

How's this: he already had power via some kind of deal, but his end of the bargain was to spread his name and fame, and performing in shows was part of the deal, which is why he chose to do that instead of get life-saving help.