Author Topic: Queen Succession Rules  (Read 24999 times)

Offline Arjan

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2018, 07:52:59 PM »
Im not arguing against that. In fact, see my post #30, as I think I'm the one to first raise the possibility of WK/Lady sex in this thread.

There are really 3 possibilities 1) they can't have sex (but then why seduce him - Maeve seemed strong enough to take Harry without needing the mantle defenses),
Because who Maeve is. Listen to Sarissa, she seduces people to let the mantle kill them. It probably turns her on. Of course she does not need to do it that way but she wants to do it that way.


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2) they can always have sex (but then why didn't she get pregnant with Slade and become Queen)
That would take away the sexual frustration and I think that is a mandatory aspect of the job, maybe even part of her power. Part of the balance anyway.
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or 3) Nemesis allows Maeve to have sex in addition to lying (but why not just get pregnant and destroy the mantle).
Doing that would have taken away much of Maeves motivation to get rid of Mab so I do not think Nemesis would do so even if it could.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2018, 07:56:40 PM »
That doesn't really explain anything... it's actually confusing to me lol.
Molly can not talk about her not being able to have sex. It is part of fairy mistique and so on. If Molly can not talk about it the winter knight mantle can not know about it because the knight should not know about it.

So the mantle telling Harry to take Maeve proves nothing.

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Offline Quantus

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2018, 08:46:09 PM »
Molly can not talk about her not being able to have sex. It is part of fairy mistique and so on. If Molly can not talk about it the winter knight mantle can not know about it because the knight should not know about it.

So the mantle telling Harry to take Maeve proves nothing.
Logically speaking this is not 100% true, given the transactional nature of the Fae and their restrictions regarding Debt. To them there is a vast difference between "she cannot Tell because Mortals are not meant to Know it, ever" and "She cannot Tell because she is does not have Clearance to simply Give Away that sort of very powerful Knowledge". 
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #93 on: January 24, 2018, 09:57:41 PM »
Logically speaking this is not 100% true, given the transactional nature of the Fae and their restrictions regarding Debt. To them there is a vast difference between "she cannot Tell because Mortals are not meant to Know it, ever" and "She cannot Tell because she is does not have Clearance to simply Give Away that sort of very powerful Knowledge".
Sure but some things are clearly in the first category and Molly owes Harry enough to tell him some things in the second category if needed.
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #94 on: January 24, 2018, 10:25:41 PM »
I would think that only a direct and specific question asked by someone that the mantle-bearer owes a debt to would allow that question to be answered.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #95 on: January 25, 2018, 01:03:21 AM »
I would think that only a direct and specific question asked by someone that the mantle-bearer owes a debt to would allow that question to be answered.
Or maybe not. Moly was quite clear that she could not tell things.
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Offline peregrine

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #96 on: January 25, 2018, 01:07:44 AM »
Molly can not talk about her not being able to have sex. It is part of fairy mistique and so on. If Molly can not talk about it the winter knight mantle can not know about it because the knight should not know about it.

So the mantle telling Harry to take Maeve proves nothing.
Well, she couldn't tell Carlos about it.  But Mab could tell Molly about it.  Molly could ask Mab about it.  Unless I'm forgetting something from the short story, nothing makes it seem like she couldn't tell someone in the same Court, say, the Winter Knight what's up.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #97 on: January 25, 2018, 05:32:36 AM »
Well, she couldn't tell Carlos about it.  But Mab could tell Molly about it.  Molly could ask Mab about it.  Unless I'm forgetting something from the short story, nothing makes it seem like she couldn't tell someone in the same Court, say, the Winter Knight what's up.

Mab seems the type to let others learn from experience, usually a painful lesson.  I don't know if she'd have answered Molly if asked about it.
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #98 on: January 25, 2018, 02:27:14 PM »
Well, she couldn't tell Carlos about it.  But Mab could tell Molly about it.  Molly could ask Mab about it.  Unless I'm forgetting something from the short story, nothing makes it seem like she couldn't tell someone in the same Court, say, the Winter Knight what's up.
Molly is the winter lady, Harry is a mortal.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #99 on: January 25, 2018, 05:49:05 PM »
Especially because the rest of that dream, as I recall, is without the rape/murder/dominate urges that the Mantle gives

You know, I never picked up on that absence. It's weird, because you'd think that the Harry gets to gettin' it is that dream, yet it's totally gone. Is that a byproduct of the dream, the strength of his affection for Murphy, or would the Mantle just be like "K, I got you here finally, do your stuff"?

Offline Arjan

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #100 on: January 25, 2018, 06:38:45 PM »
You know, I never picked up on that absence. It's weird, because you'd think that the Harry gets to gettin' it is that dream, yet it's totally gone. Is that a byproduct of the dream, the strength of his affection for Murphy, or would the Mantle just be like "K, I got you here finally, do your stuff"?
It is one of the signs that Harry had a far better grip on the mantle in skin game.
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Offline peregrine

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #101 on: January 25, 2018, 07:20:40 PM »
Molly is the winter lady, Harry is a mortal.
So?  They're still both part of the Court.

I'm not saying even that its a sure thing.  Just that there's enough difference that the rules might not be the same for everyone.  Hell, maybe even Molly could tell someone next time that she can't go through it, or at least stop before the Mantle stops her, so she doesn't put someone in a hospital.

Offline raidem

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #102 on: January 25, 2018, 07:27:21 PM »
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You know, I never picked up on that absence. It's weird, because you'd think that the Harry gets to gettin' it is that dream, yet it's totally gone. Is that a byproduct of the dream, the strength of his affection for Murphy, or would the Mantle just be like "K, I got you here finally, do your stuff"?

Well, if we go with it was Mab that got a hold of him, the Knight got swindled by the Queen.  In the end, she put a shot through his head.  :)

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It is one of the signs that Harry had a far better grip on the mantle in skin game.
True too.

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I've argued that in Skin Game the dream where Harry has sex with Murphy is Harry tapping into Mab's dream or connection with her.  That dream follows Harry's dream with Molly.
It's also a hint that Murphy=Mab.
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"I've argued a thing" doesn't really provide evidence that it's true.
Just insert the qualifiers to make my statement consistent with an opinion.  Most of the things I state are opinions.  Just take it as that.  And can we quit arguing about what people say as fact or opinion.  Simply take what we write as opinion and leave it at that.  It's the approach I largely take when I read what other people write.  Now, if it proves true that indeed Murphy=Mab, that statement becomes close to a fact.  Something that can be determined by simply asking Jim 'did you intend this to be a hint that Murphy=Mab." If he answers yes, my statement once my opinion is a fact but wasn't found to be such until later.  If no, then it was not ever a fact.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 07:49:56 PM by raidem »
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Offline Arjan

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Re: Queen Succession Rules
« Reply #103 on: January 25, 2018, 08:54:48 PM »
So?  They're still both part of the Court.

I'm not saying even that its a sure thing.  Just that there's enough difference that the rules might not be the same for everyone.  Hell, maybe even Molly could tell someone next time that she can't go through it, or at least stop before the Mantle stops her, so she doesn't put someone in a hospital.
But Harry is mortal

Quote from: Molly
“Can’t, literally,” she said cheerfully and waved an airy hand. “Faerie mystique and all that.”

Harry is not bound by the same rules, they do not trust him with their secrets.
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