Disproof

[raidem]

Well, there are natural everyday occurrences it seems of 'one choice' at just the right or wrong moment causing splits in realities that is Jim's mortal free will creating reality.  I see what you mean though with it being combined with time travel to change history.  The big events would be something like where one goes back in time to kill your grandfather and succeeding whereby you actually cause a twinned universe to exist whereby you never occurred.  That would be a huge change resulting from a time travel event.  I'm sure there would be other instances more significant than that where a twinned universe would spawn so there is HUGE potential for time travel to cause DRAMATIC changes but in spinning off a new 'twinned' universe.

[raidem]

Ok, I was thinking about my side theories like Marcone being descended from Murphy and Harry, or the other wag that Harry's fAther is either nicodemus redeemed/reborn or descended from him.

So, I was wondering about the temporal complications of having a child participate and influence events in their parents lives but with some time travel origin in his backstory.  I realize it's a wag that doesn't have much of a following nor many merits, but for the sake of discussion and the fact we have no new book to talk about for another year would there be timeline restrictions placed on some of these interactions.  Would the universe simply enforce these restrictions via inertia.

How would you go about writing a story where marcone descends from Murphy and Harry but within the context of this book and the rules that have been set forth so far.
You may make use of time travel, alternate reality, mantles, paradox, nevernever, ...

And/Or then proceed to disprove marcone descends from Harry and Murphy using the book.  I'll try to see if there are holes that need to be plugged or just abandoned.

Likewise, try to create or think of a story where a redeemed nicodemus gets a second chance similar to Harry because the other side cheated and big gets a different body with a second chance at life as one Malcolm dresden. You can use time travel, alternate realities, second chances, balancing of scales, you are a soul you have a body, ...

Then proceed to disprove the theory with text.

[Rasins]

His outsider animated corpse or a future cowl who traveled to the past to die as simon?

I'm pretty sure Harry describes Cowl's magic as Mortal.

Also, when Harry mentions to Kumori that Cowl would have Harry's death curse to contend with, she replies that He's dealt with death curses before.  I'm thinking at Archangel, some of his folks there realized he was responsible and threw their curses at him.  Thus requiring him to wear the Cowl, and it would explain how he was so strong and out of Harry's league.

[raidem]

I think the main reason for the Cowl as Jim has said in WOJ is that you just don't go around giving your identity away that easily.  It's part of the wizard toolbox of keeping secrets even though there are people who see through the cowl.  You just don't make it easy for everyone to know.

[Quantus]

I think you are arguing for a subjective timeline, there. Objectively, it would be in the future. Mab would not have lived those stories in her Mab persona yet, which means they are future events of which she has a past memory. Ergo, she would have had past knowledge that she was lying about the future. Also, for the ally portion of the statement, Mab's timeline is irrelevant. She said Harry will never consider her an ally in his heart, which makes Harry's timeline the relevant consideration, and Cold Days and Skin Game were in the future in Harry's timeline.

Now, Mab could have forgotten who she was in her mortal past life, which would make her wrong instead of a liar, but that would require the theory to be at least altered.

I dont think that would be how it would work.  Having the Memory of the event does not make her (Fae-technically) the one who experienced it, especially for a race that can steal memories from you as a form of payment.  By Fae logic, "Mab" is not "Murphy", even if by some series of events Murphy were to become the host of the Queen Mantle.  This is teh same as how Vadderung and Kringle are entirely different beings that happen to reside in the same body.   So even if, subjectively, Mab knows that there is a transition in Murphy's future that make her the host of the Winter Queen mantle, there is no point in time where The Winter Queen is an ally of Harry the way Murphy was/is/will be. 

[Arjan]

I'm pretty sure Harry describes Cowl's magic as Mortal.

Also, when Harry mentions to Kumori that Cowl would have Harry's death curse to contend with, she replies that He's dealt with death curses before.  I'm thinking at Archangel, some of his folks there realized he was responsible and threw their curses at him.  Thus requiring him to wear the Cowl, and it would explain how he was so strong and out of Harry's league.

But then he was still alive. You see in the original timeline simon did survive, the vampire attack failed and the outsiders could not get through that is why Cowl, who at that time was totally taken over by his outsider and was going to die, traveled to the past to kill Simon and blow things up.

[jonas]

But then he was still alive. You see in the original timeline simon did survive, the vampire attack failed and the outsiders could not get through that is why Cowl, who at that time was totally taken over by his outsider and was going to die, traveled to the past to kill Simon and blow things up.

Mwwaahahahaha! You forget plenty of necessarily mortal Practitioners who have inhuman aura's and what not. His reference to 'mortal magic' there was technically a distinction towards the other necromancers, whom we know to be 'human' but obviously do not use human magic. Technically, he could be an immortal possessing of Mortal Magic or some such.

[Arjan]

Mwwaahahahaha! You forget plenty of necessarily mortal Practitioners who have inhuman aura's and what not. His reference to 'mortal magic' there was technically a distinction towards the other necromancers, whom we know to be 'human' but obviously do not use human magic. Technically, he could be an immortal possessing of Mortal Magic or some such.

Cowl, just like Harry, could probably use both. Until he died that is. His corpse used outsider magic.

[jonas]

Cowl, just like Harry, could probably use both. Until he died that is. His corpse used outsider magic.

I disagree entirely.
For the TT theory I have here Kumori revived him to his current state the same way she did to the thug in the Alley. In a very circular way it's were she learned to do that trick.
I think in Undeath he can use both as well, just because of who he is/what he believes.
But more specifically i'd say his is different because even while Harnessing the Black he holds on to it through his belief in regular magic as it is. Harry iirc even makes a parallel between the feel of his own tainted with dark magic. Human Magic, like humanity itself should be just as 'alloyed' in it's make up, though the threat of going bonkers and being replaced by something inhuman marginalizes that fact.

[raidem]

This has been copied from the Queen Succession Rules thread.  It is about an exception with the Knight being allowed to have sex and potentially conceive a child with the Lady bypassing the defense mechanism.  The Lady mantle, having reviewed the exact words Mab has stated regarding when the mantle would destroy itself, is incompatible with being a 'mother.' This incompatibility equates with its destruction.  And therefore the destruction of the mantle hinges upon the definition of mother most likely being "a woman who gives birth.  The following comments followed.

Alright, this is taking me down a similar line of thinking.  I'll probably copy this over to another thread as it applies there also.
Let's postulate that the WK can have sex with the Lady bypassing the defenses.  And, that the Lady won't become Queen until she gives birth.  And that if she gives birth, thereby becoming a mother, while wielding the Lady mantle, she will have destroyed that mantle absent the Queen mantle.

Now, i'm going to borrow some of your argument regarding the exception the Knight poses.  For my purposes with regard to the Murphy/Mab theory coupled with Murphy pregnant with Marcone Wag, I'd venture that WK Harry having impregnated Murphy prior to her TT will 1) provide a beacon for the Lady mantle, 2) bypass defense restriction within Lady mantle thereby allowing Murphy to attract the Lady mantle while being pregnant.

[wardenferry419]

Looking around Google. I came across this:
http://mythara.wikia.com/wiki/Fae
Don't know much about this; but, someone might find it useful.

[Rasins]

Okay, just got done with DB again, and the description Harry gives Cowl whiles he's calling down the DH said he had outstretched arms that were covered in old scars.

Just another clue for us to look for on other characters.

[raidem]

Yep, and we know Kumori is caucasian per ambulance tech when she drew back her hood to resuscitate the dead/near dead guy in DB.

We also know that Cowl had Vittoro use runed copper circlet (something like it) to summon/speak with Cowl's apparition. Harry viewed it with Little Chicago's help.  Cowl caught on and sent a deadly spike of energy Harry's way.

[Rasins]

Yep, and we know Kumori is caucasian per ambulance tech when she drew back her hood to resuscitate the dead/near dead guy in DB.

We also know that Cowl had Vittoro use runed copper circlet (something like it) to summon/speak with Cowl's apparition. Harry viewed it with Little Chicago's help.  Cowl caught on and sent a deadly spike of energy Harry's way.

Yup, yup.  And short enough to just be able to grab Harry's hair and draw his head back to put a knife to his throat.

[wardenferry419]

Yeah, Kumori was stretching for that one.