Author Topic: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites  (Read 11138 times)

Offline Rasins

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White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« on: January 05, 2018, 04:52:09 PM »
In BR we learn about how the White Court can be harmed by TRUE LOVE.

We also know that Genosa is in love.

That being said, when we first meet Lara, she grabs Genosa's arm and leaves the room.

Why can she touch him?  Thomas can't touch Justine, so why can Lara touch Genosa? 

Is it possible that Genosa isn't in TRUE LOVE, but in love, and that gives him some shielding against the White court's "come hither" magic?
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Offline RobReece

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 05:08:32 PM »
I believe that its in TC where Thomas talks about why he can't touch Justine at all, because both he and his Hunger constantly want her, as opposed to Madeline who thinks she should feed on everyone all the time.  Lara has greater control over her Hunger, if it isn't trying to feed, it's safe to touch someone protected by True Love.

at least that's how I understood it...

Offline Arjan

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 06:31:40 PM »
Even more in white night where Lara can kiss Harry up until the last moment when she loses control.
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 11:44:05 PM »
In BR we learn about how the White Court can be harmed by TRUE LOVE.

We also know that Genosa is in love.

That being said, when we first meet Lara, she grabs Genosa's arm and leaves the room.

Why can she touch him?  Thomas can't touch Justine, so why can Lara touch Genosa? 

Is it possible that Genosa isn't in TRUE LOVE, but in love, and that gives him some shielding against the White court's "come hither" magic?
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Offline Snark Knight

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 03:52:54 AM »
Even more in white night where Lara can kiss Harry up until the last moment when she loses control.

Now that you point it out, from her POV that was probably a fairly serious bit of finesse (until she thought they were about to die anyway).

Offline Gman

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 05:36:37 AM »
It may be that the WC vamps get harmed when they are feeding or attempting feed off of the protected human who is in true love. True Love seems to be rare.

Offline jonas

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 04:32:22 PM »
It may be that the WC vamps get harmed when they are feeding or attempting feed off of the protected human who is in true love. True Love seems to be rare.
That. Thomas burned everytime he touches Justine for the same reason Madeline did, he can't control his hunger demon. Lara was doing so. It talks about this in WN iirc after he has Justine wipe her hair over Mad,
*Now, a symbol of true love apparently burns with latent love all the time though, Lara has a scar that won't heal because she touched the wrong wedding ring once.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 06:47:27 PM by jonas »
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Offline RobReece

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 07:04:56 PM »
That. Thomas burned everytime he touches Justine for the same reason Madeline did, he can't control his hunger demon. Lara was doing so. It talks about this in WN iirc after he has Justine wipe her hair over Mad,
*Now, a symbol of true love apparently burns with latent love all the time though, Lara has a scar that won't heal because she touched the wrong wedding ring once.
That's exactly what I said 5 posts ago. As for the ring, there's nothing to say she wasn't prepared to feed when she touched it.

Offline Arjan

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 07:32:38 PM »
That's exactly what I said 5 posts ago. As for the ring, there's nothing to say she wasn't prepared to feed when she touched it.
Or she was younger and less experienced. Or she was just hungry, it is easier to control the demon when you are well fed and it is content.
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Offline jonas

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2018, 07:57:27 PM »
That's exactly what I said 5 posts ago. As for the ring, there's nothing to say she wasn't prepared to feed when she touched it.
Negligible, she has a permanent scar from it, not from trying to feed. Thomas feed on Justine and he loves her and it doesn't permanently scar him. It twas the object as a symbolic talisman, she's not going to feed on an object.
*apparently that's not what you said then?
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Offline Lidy

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2018, 08:12:14 PM »
I've noticed the touching thing, too. Not with Lara, but with Thomas and Harry. Someone said Arthur might've been wearing a long-sleeved shirt, which is possible. Or Lara could have had gloves on, but the idea that she was reining in her Hunger is more interesting. However, in the same book, Thomas describes how Lara and another vampire got sick after touching a love symbol (Lara even has the scar), so I don't think merely keeping the Hunger in check is viable.

Instead, I wonder if Arturo is an old-fashionable man and refused to consummate his relationship with his fiancee (or if she made the choice and he went along with it. I remember she said he falls in love easily). That way, he wouldn't have been protected from Lara's touch, as physical intimacy seems to be the key to it. Anything other than non-loving-sex could be considered platonic.

As for Thomas, he burns when he touches Justine because... the demon loves her, too? If the Hunger is capable of feeling love (and it understands the emotion enough to know it hurts it), then feeling it would be self-destructive, so it doesn't matter how much control Thomas has over it (and he has a lot, as he was able to feed off his clients without killing them), near Justine, the Hunger goes crazy, like Gollum (love her/hate her).

Offline Ananda

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2018, 02:59:33 AM »
It’s probably just a continuity error.

Offline LordDresden2

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2018, 07:04:29 PM »
I've noticed the touching thing, too. Not with Lara, but with Thomas and Harry. Someone said Arthur might've been wearing a long-sleeved shirt, which is possible. Or Lara could have had gloves on, but the idea that she was reining in her Hunger is more interesting. However, in the same book, Thomas describes how Lara and another vampire got sick after touching a love symbol (Lara even has the scar), so I don't think merely keeping the Hunger in check is viable.

It's two separate things.

We don't know why it's so, but for some reason the love-energy in symbols of love affects the Whites differently.  Maybe it radiates from it, while to encounter it in a person they have to dig in while trying to feed or something.  But the effects are simply different.

Maybe a person is like a bottle of energy, and sometimes that energy is contact-poisonous.  It's still safe as long as it's in the bottle.  I wonder if things like that wedding ring could be compared to an item on which somebody has poured the poisonous energy, so it's coated in the dangerous substance and dangerous on contact, while the bottle of poison is safe unless you open it (i.e. try to feed).

But that's my speculation.

Quote
As for Thomas, he burns when he touches Justine because... the demon loves her, too? If the Hunger is capable of feeling love (and it understands the emotion enough to know it hurts it), then feeling it would be self-destructive, so it doesn't matter how much control Thomas has over it (and he has a lot, as he was able to feed off his clients without killing them), near Justine, the Hunger goes crazy, like Gollum (love her/hate her).

No.

Thomas the man loves Justine.  Thomas the Hunger wants to devour Justine.  It so happens that these two desires are both passionately intense with regard to her.

Thomas' Hunger tries to feed on every human being that he comes into skin-to-skin contact with.  When Thomas and Harry rap knuckles, Thomas' Hunger tries to feed on Harry.  If Thomas saved Karrin from falling off a cliff, his Hunger would try to feed on Karrin at the same time as long as their bodies were touching.

But most of the time it's easy for Thomas to restrain the Hunger, so he can shake hands or save someone in danger or whatever safely.  The exception is if he hasn't fed in so long the Hunger is starving, then he becomes deadly dangerous to everyone around him because the Hunger is off the leash.

The other exception is Justine.  As much as Thomas the man loves her, Thomas the Hunger thinks she's absolutely delicious.  Thomas' Hunger 'loves' Justine in the same way I that I 'love' good spaghetti or a well-cooked steak, or Harry 'loves' Mama Murphy's burgers.  Justine just tastes too good to resist and Thomas can't restrain his Hunger near her.

« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 07:06:56 PM by LordDresden2 »

Offline LordDresden2

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2018, 07:10:40 PM »
Negligible, she has a permanent scar from it, not from trying to feed. Thomas feed on Justine and he loves her and it doesn't permanently scar him. It twas the object as a symbolic talisman, she's not going to feed on an object.



I still wonder, incidentally, if that ring was her own, from when she was much younger.

Offline Mira

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Re: White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2018, 07:14:15 PM »
I've noticed the touching thing, too. Not with Lara, but with Thomas and Harry. Someone said Arthur might've been wearing a long-sleeved shirt, which is possible. Or Lara could have had gloves on, but the idea that she was reining in her Hunger is more interesting. However, in the same book, Thomas describes how Lara and another vampire got sick after touching a love symbol (Lara even has the scar), so I don't think merely keeping the Hunger in check is viable.

Instead, I wonder if Arturo is an old-fashionable man and refused to consummate his relationship with his fiancee (or if she made the choice and he went along with it. I remember she said he falls in love easily). That way, he wouldn't have been protected from Lara's touch, as physical intimacy seems to be the key to it. Anything other than non-loving-sex could be considered platonic.

As for Thomas, he burns when he touches Justine because... the demon loves her, too? If the Hunger is capable of feeling love (and it understands the emotion enough to know it hurts it), then feeling it would be self-destructive, so it doesn't matter how much control Thomas has over it (and he has a lot, as he was able to feed off his clients without killing them), near Justine, the Hunger goes crazy, like Gollum (love her/hate her).

The  love between Thomas and Justine is true love, that is why he could not touch her until she had physical sex with someone else..  Remember she invited a gay woman friend at the end of Ghost Story?  Since though she might be mildly bi-sexual, she isn't gay, so the gay sex counts to break the true love lock that prevented Thomas from touching her and at the same time in their minds at least since she isn't gay stayed faithful.

Love tokens like a wedding ring or a rose can burn if they were exchanged in true love.   It's complicated, the best theory I
can think of is the Hunger Demon feeds on carnal lust and the "hormones/emotions" that calls forth, but true love is on a higher level...  Kind of like getting too near the sun,  the Hunger Demon feeds on the light and warmth until death of the victim.   Think of true love itself as the sun, touch it and you burn up.