Spoilers: Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[raidem]

I don't really like your explanations of how Anakin restored balance to the force though I can buy into the Anakin kills Palpatine which finally begins the balancing of the force.  I do believe we will find even with the Disney star wars movies that there is a big bad imprisoned within a black hole cluster which the Kessle run has to navigate around. This then possibly ties Han solos kessel run with finding the unknown safe route that allowed him to do it in under 12 parsers which everyone knows is impossible and believed to be  just hyperbole.

This then means the chosen one's lineage and not necessarily himself is who all together bring balance to the force.

I was looking more at the Canon trilogy of books set after return of the Jedi. Palpatine foresaw the possibility of himself dying and issued contingency orders that ultimately led to the new orders creation.  Two things that wasn't completed in the contingency was the destruction of jakku, Palpatine had planned for Sith artifacts to be dropped in jakku core via mining shaft which would initiate explosion and result in the subsequent destruction of planet and ships in orbit. Jakku was meant to be the last battle between empire and rebels with both their fleets destroyed in the planetary explosion. There was a plan that lured the rebels there which succeeded. The second thing that wasn't accomplished, scratch that was accomplished, was the scorching of a multitude of planets within the empire to include naboo, coruscant, etc.  Palpatine believed if the empire was so weak as to protect him, it should die with him.  He also didn't want someone to inherit his empire.

So the people responsible for the contingency, for the battle at jakku, for the kidnapping of some jakkus children became the core of the later new order after they set out for the unknown regions.

[knnn]

All in all I felt this was a disappointing movie.  I think the actors did really good jobs with the lines they were given, but the plot was abysmal, full of holes and way too long.

Some examples:

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1) If Finn can just take a ship and jump away and come back at will, why not evacuate more people this way?   Heck, why not evacuate everyone?

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2) Maybe there were people profiteering from outfitting both the rebels and the first order with fighters, but those Dreadnaughts and the freaking super-death-star from the previous movie couldn't possibly have been done without the resources of a multi-planetary government behind them.

I mean sure, you can blame "bad guys" for selling guns and rockets to anyone that pays them money, but if ISIS suddenly had access to a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, and squadrons of state of the art stealth fighters, I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to come up with a better explanation.

Oh, and if the guy who is supplying things has access to both x-wings and tie fighters, why didn't the first order buy the better ships == you know, the ones that have actual shields and can do their own hyperspace jumps?

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3) Sorry, but any movie where someone says "shooting is too good for them" in order to explain why someone can still be alive is a weak movie.   

And what's with ordering up a formation of ~1000 troopsers just to see the execution?   Why are you according "scum" this honor?

And why did Finn feel the need to go fight Phasma?   Just run already.

(At least we've seen the end of her.   Hopefully).

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And why is Huck/Hux or whatever his name is still in charge?   He's obviously incompetent (see the other admiral's comment in the first scene on how the fighters should have been launched already), so I kinda bought into the fact that supposedly mastermind Snoke raised him up above his station for "reasons".   

But with said mastermind dead and two whiny idiots in charge, why should **anyone** still listen to them?   Because Hux's a charismatic leader?  Because Kylo can choke you if he doesn't like you and can block a couple blaster bolts?   Jedi reflexes didn't stop then from getting slaughtered on Geonosis and didn't help them when Order 66 was given.

Face it, a large part of the reason the Emperor was feared was because he had an empire of resources and bureaucracy behind him.  Kylo is barely competent enough to fly a single starship, loses control when anything goes wrong and has the less of an idea of how to run an organization than when I tried to run my own lemonade stand in first grade.   

If this is the new "empire", then someone competent better challenge Kylo and Hux very soon.   If on the other hand, this is just another group of terrorists, what's to stop any of the more competent admirals from just saying bye and jumping out to buy their own weapons from those dealers and carve out they're own little Duchy somewhere in space?

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Not really a plot point, just meh.

You'll notice that every time Kylo does anything remotely independent, Snokes royal ninjas do the "hoo-ha" weapons flash to show how edgy and ninja-y they are and Snoke has to wave them down.

I'm not sure why Snoke thought he needed fiery red ninjas to defend him against anyone, but I'll bet their willingness to flip out and kill things at the drop of a hat must have started getting on his nerves.   Remember the Emperor's royal guards?   They never flinched in the face of Vader, never needed to prove anything.

As soon as I saw that first red ninja half pull out his blade and act menacing I died a little inside.   It was obvious we were going to see them in battle and equally obvious who was going to die.   

Literal. Ninja. Redshirts. 

[raidem]

2.  Based off canon, Palpatine gave secret orders regarding a contingency where he sent several fleets and military assets in case of his death some of which was to seed the new order within the unknown regions. So he could have ordered them there postdeath plans Or they naturally assembled.

4.  Hux was the son of brendol hux one of the leaders of the contingency. After his death at the hands of phasma in a conspiracy with younger hux,  hux takes over his father's position as one of the leaders of the new order. 
Prior to his father's death, he is looked favorably upon by gallius rax, Palpatine's trusted admiral that personally carries out Palpatine's contingency.  I think either Palpatine or rax had larger plans for him which I believe is why he is in charge.  He is maybe viewed as having a big role to play in events by those in the force who can see into the future.  That would be my guess.   

I believe we will see  a revisit to jakku as Palpatine was very interested at a particular dig site, which is where he met gallius rax as a little boy. Rax would later make child soldiers out of those from jakku, and the orphanage from which he came that wads nearby the dig site.  Some of these child soldiers were shaped into vicious killers by hux's father, but was transferred to younger hux by orders of rax.  So although I kinda repeat the story, it should be noted that rax, the person most apprised of Palpatine's plans, placed younger hux in his position along with many other child fighters that would form the base of the new orders military might.  Please note,  those child fighters came from jakku.

[forumghost]

2.  Based off canon, Palpatine gave secret orders regarding a contingency where he sent several fleets and military assets in case of his death some of which was to seed the new order within the unknown regions. So he could have ordered them there postdeath plans Or they naturally assembled.

Actually, the new canon is that in the event of his death, the Imperial Fleet was to engage in something called "Operation Cinder" which can be summed up as "A Galaxy not ruled by me doesn't deserve to live, Kill Everything".

He literally ordered them to burn every world in the Empire for failing to keep him alive.

[raidem]

There was the Contingency, as I outlined.

Operation cinder I talked about too but not by that name which is just part of the Contingency. Read 3rd paragraph of my first comment on this thread.  The second thing that wasn't accomplished...scratch that was accomplished...was the scorching of a multitude of planets...

I also have previously referred to operation cinder in the thread before but Canon also has Palpatine ordering a regrouping of ships after his death that wasn't involved in cinder.  Those big starships crashed on jakku was part of a battle Palpatine intended to happen.  It just didn't happen along with the entire planet going up in a blast taking out both fleets at once.  And yes, the empire fleet at jakku wasn't the only assets he had.  And they had ultimate orders for them to reassemble in the unknown regions as ordered via rax. The trilogy books are Canon.

I'm going with it being a part of the Contingency.  Yeah cinder was just part of the Contingency I just viewed its wiki.

[knnn]

See, that's exactly where the movie failed.   

If the Contingency exists in the movie canon, then have some admiral mention doing a resupply run instead of wasting our time essentially preaching the evils of war profiteering.   Unless the purpose of the scene is some kind of lame red herring (lame because of the aforementioned holes in the logic), this is just extra bloat in an already over-long movie.

Same thing with Hux.   If Hux is given loyalty because of who his father was, let someone mention it **onscreen**.  A simple mutter "if it wasn't for the Emperor's faith in your father..." would tighten things up much so better than an extra 15 seconds of infinite mirrors.

[raidem]

You are absolutely correct.

The Canon trilogy was hardly referenced at all save for the fact that the remains of the Super Star destroyer and other ships were seen crashed on Jakku.  And, the New Order's rise was hardly, if at all, linked to Palpatine's Contingency orders via Gallius Rax, who died when he personally attempted to overload Jakku's core using Sith artifacts but was killed by his own Grand Admiral Sloane.  Rax last order, while he was dying, was for her to assume command of the mission to the unknown regions to help create this new order.

I didn't learn more of it until after watching the movie and creating this thread.

I could see a cloned palpatine being a possibility in the Contingency now after reading a brief synopsis about the canon trilogy.

[Kindler]

I could see a cloned palpatine being a possibility in the Contingency now after reading a brief synopsis about the canon trilogy.

I'm of two minds about that possibility. One, it would be cool to have a Big Bad that wasn't all talk, but Two, I really, really hope we don't have any clone business with regard to resurrecting dead characters. Have Kylo find the equivalent of the original Sith temple, or have Palpatine as a Force ghost advising him so he's less of a petulant boy.

Also, Knnn, I'm not all that upset with Kylo being in charge of the First Order; you saw how well it worked out for just that limited engagement. I'd kinda like to see what it's like to have an unstable, uber-strong, emotional wreck in charge of a massive war machine. One of the things I always wanted to see was Vader in charge, because I always thought he'd be awful at it. You can't just forcechoke your officers into submission every time they disagree, you know?

[raidem]

Well my guesses for the big bad are Cloned Palpatine, Cloned Snoke, or some big bad that I've talked about like Abeloth or one of her manifestations outside of her main self.

[lt_murgen]

...Palpatine had planned for Sith artifacts to be dropped in jakku core via mining shaft which would initiate explosion and result in the subsequent destruction of planet and ships in orbit. ....

I think this is the key to Rey.  A force sensitive child growing up in a sith and death tainted environment.  You could pull at KOTOR 2- Jedi General thing, where she (as a child) cut herself off from the Force.  Her contact with Kylo made a connection back to the force for her. 

[raidem]

Yeah we still don't yet know what inadvertent effects were caused by those Sith objects, Palpatine observatory, digsite, etc.  Palpatine also believed Jakku to be important to the galaxy for some reason which is why he was so focused on it.

[Quantus]

I didnt mind most of the things that people are bothered about, in that Im ok with Snoke's backstory being unimportant, and Im actually really pleased that they didnt try to tie Rey into on of the established Bloodlines (and especially showing the random orphan kid developing force powers at the end) as Im not in the camp that says Star Wars /has/ to remain the Skywalker Saga forevermore. 

I do really with they'd spent even a throw-away line on how the First Order gained so much resources.  The Contingency from the Expanded Universe makes a whole lot of sense but Id never heard of it until one of the guys at work mentioned it.  That was the main thing I wanted explained definitively: how the blood hell did the First Order gain so much resources both militarily and economically in such a short amount of time. If they were simply conquering and looting Planets it would be one thing, if they stumbled across a cache of Empire weapons that's another, but either way Id like them to address it directly.


PS.  The line that made the movie for me: "Watch your Language, R2!"

[wardenferry419]

How did the Rebellion take down the Empire and in 20+ years lose everything they had gain?

[forumghost]

How did the Rebellion take down the Empire and in 20+ years lose everything they had gain?

Gross incompetence on behalf of both parties + Author Fiat.

[raidem]

How did the Rebellion take down the Empire and in 20+ years lose everything they had gain?

My quick review showed that there were fractures within the New Republic, with Imperial Operatives either working as and/or working with Republic Senators.  Some Senators were involved in side deals that helped the New Order and these were kept hidden.  The Republic Senate often was stalemated into lack of action.  So, the Republic essentially disbanded their military while the New Order created/regrouped theirs.

Lea, tired of the New Republics stalemate, created the Resistance so as to finally take action against the New Order and work toward exposing it so that the New Republic would finally act.  Many of the great heroes of the Rebellion then joined her resistance which is how Admiral Ackbar came to be with Lea.  He came out of retirement to help knowing that the New Republic was failing and that a Resistance needed to be created to do what the Republic was failing to do.