Author Topic: Mac, A T-Shirt, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion  (Read 7121 times)

Offline raidem

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Mac, A T-Shirt, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« on: December 12, 2017, 02:36:08 PM »
First off the T-Shirt:
The Tweet
https://twitter.com/PatrickRothfuss/status/874393135589326852

I'll include the T-shirt image separate from the tweet after I switch to Chrome.
T-shirt has symbols...Peace, and ?, maybe mjolnir or something.
It reads...
McAnnaly's Pub
Official neutral territory under the Unseelie Accords since 1994.

This coupled with the fact that the Unseelie Incursion in 1994 caused or was involved in the vanishing of Milwaukee makes me believe that Mac played a part in this event somehow. We have P-WOJ that Mac completed a midlevel questline that Mab herself created and that this led to Mac being granted neutral territory under the accords. The P-WOJ established that someone with many contacts within the supernatural world could possibly complete the questline. (P-WOJ paraphrased WOJ)

On another note, I'd say that the T-shirt suggests that the appropriate language of the sign for McAnnaly's Pub is ACCORDED NEUTRAL TERRITORY and not "GROUND".  That is if there is anything significant between the two.

One thing I would ask of you is to look at the T-shirt and try to figure out the second symbol at the top left of the logo.  The first I found is indeed a Peace symbol in Norse symbology. I had a hard time finding the 2nd symbol but it looks like a dual headed hammer or axe.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 07:10:56 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 03:40:47 PM »
Try googling Labrys for the symbol, seems similar.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2017, 03:52:46 PM »
Looks like it might be the rune for "love." I think it's "peace and love," which I find hilarious.

Offline raidem

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2017, 03:55:43 PM »
So we know from the T-shirt, if it's WOJ, that McAnnaly's Pub opened 1994.

Looking at that 2nd symbol, it is either Mjolnir or Labrys.
So, Peace and then a symbol of war.

It may, if Jim had a hand in creating the T-shirt, be a hint as to Mac's identity.
If the second symbol is Mjolnir, then it is likely he may be Thor or someone associated with it, his descendants.

If the second symbol is Labrys, then we need to research who identifies with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labrys
Quote
In the Near East and other parts of the region, eventually, axes of this sort are often wielded by male divinities and appear to become symbols of the thunderbolt,[9] a symbol often found associated with the axe symbol. In Labraunda of Caria the double-axe accompanies the storm-god Zeus Labraundos. Similar symbols have been found on plates of Linear pottery culture in Romania.[10] The double-axe is associated with the Hurrian god of sky and storm Teshub. His Hittite and Luwian name was Tarhun.[11] Both are depicted holding a triple thunderbolt in one hand, and a double axe in the other hand.[12] Similarly, Zeus throws his Keravnos to bring storm. The labrys, or pelekys, is the double axe Zeus uses to invoke storm, and the relative modern Greek word for lightning is star-axe (ἀστροπελέκι astropeleki)[13] The worship of it was kept up in the Greek island of Tenedos and in several cities in the south-west of former Hellenic Asia Minor, and it appears in later historical times in the cult of the thunder god of Asia Minor (Zeus Labrayndeus).
Based off that, the Labrys are often wielded by gods associated with thunder, storm, lightening etc.
The first symbol though is undoubtedly of Norse origin though there may be other cultures where it exists and represents peace too.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 04:20:10 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2017, 04:18:18 PM »
One interpretation is Minoan, a society that predates Greek that worshiped a Great Goddess.
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Offline raidem

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2017, 04:22:39 PM »
Wikipedia though says there is no evidence that links Labrys name with the double ax on Crete, or associated with Minoans. There is a reference to a labyrinth on Crete, but the Wiki says more on the subject.

As mentioned, the labrys is often associated with the Minoans. There is no doubt that, on Crete, the double axe was an important cultic symbol.[8] However, there is no evidence to link the word labrys with this Minoan symbol.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 04:27:50 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline raidem

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2017, 04:30:00 PM »
If Jim participated in the T-shirt's creation, as the Pub was identified as opening in 1994, I believe there is now evidence to suggest that Mac is a god of thunder, lightening etc.  If there is a strong link between Mac and storms, then it would be interesting to see Mac and attunement to what storms mean.  For example, he would be aware of say a Dead Beat Darkhallow storm, or someone tapping the storm in Storm Front, or etc.

It also fits with us being introduced to Mac in Storm Front.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor
This has a picture of Thor and Mjolnir.

Zeus Labrandos ("Zeus of Labraunda"): Worshiped at Caria, depicted with a double-edged axe (labrys), a Hellenization of the Hurrian weather god Teshub
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 04:44:51 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

Offline Kindler

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2017, 05:08:24 PM »
I actually now think it's Dagaz intersected by Isaz.
Dagaz: http://runesecrets.com/rune-meanings/dagaz
Isaz: http://runesecrets.com/rune-meanings/isa

According to what I've read, especially on the above site, Dagaz is associated with experience, awakening, enlightenment, and so forth. Isaz (written there as Isa, though I see both everywhere) is associated with ice, stasis, self-control, and self-preservation. When intersected, it could mean something about a realization that stasis is necessary, or supporting the status quo, or neutrality. Or, as Mac puts it, "out."

Haven't looked at runes since Beowulf back in college. Maybe I should reach out to one of my old professors.

Offline jonas

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 05:11:25 PM »
I'm kinda surprised it links him, even vaguely to Norse of all things...
The problem with identifying him is they intentionally put as many references into Mac as any one person can handle lol.
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 05:47:59 PM »
It was a quick browze of similar symbols. Seemed like it may be connected to Hecate.
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Offline Talby16

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 05:57:14 PM »
Did WOJ establish that the pub opened in 1994? I didn't think that it was every mentioned in the books. All I can remember Harry saying is that the pub is a fixture in the magic community. The t-shirt says Official Neutral Territory under the Unseelie Accords since 1994. To me that means 1994 is when he gained Neutral status not when he opened shop in Chicago. I think it is likely that the Unseelie Incursion combined with things heating up in Chicago prompted Mac to get the pub declared neutral.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 06:16:04 PM »
I kinda figure that the bar was set up between 1994 and 2000.
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Offline jonas

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2017, 07:00:55 PM »
I think this is an intentional clue for PT coming soon. Mac's is going to Host the Meetings or something. If last time made a necessary excuse for mutual ground, i'd imagine it's so it's available in the future.
Quote from: A. Lanning
I'm sorry, My responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.
Quote from: C Chaplin
...And so as long as men die, Liberty will never perish.

Offline Kindler

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2017, 07:07:01 PM »
I think this is an intentional clue for PT coming soon. Mac's is going to Host the Meetings or something. If last time made a necessary excuse for mutual ground, i'd imagine it's so it's available in the future.

One can hope.

Offline raidem

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Re: A T-Shirt, Mac, and the 1994 Unseelie Incursion
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2017, 07:08:14 PM »
Yeah, the T-shirt suggests that the Pub became neutral territory under unseelie accords in 1994.  So, it could have opened then. Or it could have been open, and then later received neutral territory status.  It is a point that I'm uncertain on. Of course, this relies on the T-shirt being WOJ, but I think it most likely is given Jim Butcher tweeting it and the T-shirt stating things that really isn't spelled out in the books.

Kindler, I like your suggestion on the 2nd Rune.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 07:14:10 PM by raidem »
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
LIES!  Damn lies!  It's a cover up!
WOJ: http://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,21772.0.html