Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?

[Arjan]

I have to borrow Harry's words for this from book 5. Nicodemous is no victim, he is a freaking collaborator.

In this enterprise of evil the fallen conducted, saying that Nick has a 50% share may not be accurate, but it won't be too much of an exaggeration either.

Michael himself does not deny the fact that the likes of Nicodemous and Cassius are collaborators. He is just duty bound to saved them regardless.

I don’t know. From what we have learned from Lasciels interaction with Harry and Hannah Nicodemus view of the world is probably greatly distorted and I don’t think someone can have a denarian coin whispering in his head for 2000 years and still be in charge.

That equal partnership thing is probably fake. He may think he is in charge but he surely is not.

[wardenferry419]

I give it 60/40 ratio of Anduriel/Nico making decisions.

[huangjimmy108]

I don’t know. From what we have learned from Lasciels interaction with Harry and Hannah Nicodemus view of the world is probably greatly distorted and I don’t think someone can have a denarian coin whispering in his head for 2000 years and still be in charge.

That equal partnership thing is probably fake. He may think he is in charge but he surely is not.

Hannah is just stupid, but as EB said, "Stupid" is always more dangerous than a true black hearted villain.

Most of the dinarians are just you said, victims. Nicodemous however is not one of them, and Nicodemous is not stupid either. He is exactly that black hearted evil mastermind, who's only gets uppity on occasion.

Just like you, I doubt Nicodemous is in charge in his partnership with Anduriel, even though he thinks he is, but he is a major shareholder without a doubt.

[groinkick]

Hannah is just stupid, but as EB said, "Stupid" is always more dangerous than a true black hearted villain.

Most of the dinarians are just you said, victims. Nicodemous however is not one of them, and Nicodemous is not stupid either. He is exactly that black hearted evil mastermind, who's only gets uppity on occasion.

Just like you, I doubt Nicodemous is in charge in his partnership with Anduriel, even though he thinks he is, but he is a major shareholder without a doubt.

That depends...  If Adolf Hitler obtained a Coin to escape the Allies, and Russians at the end of WW2, would you say the evil he did afterwards was because of the Coin?  I'm not saying Nicodemus was always evil, perhaps he wasn't.  On the other hand when he obtained a Coin, he may have been a monster already.  On the other other hand it would make sense if the ultimate goal will be for Harry to save a once decent man who had been utterly corrupted by such a Coin. 

[wardenferry419]

A thought related to Nico, is he the only person to be a host to Anduriel? We have seen coins with different hosts. And that some coins don't get circulated as often as others. But, I think that Nico is the original host to Anduriel.

[huangjimmy108]

A thought related to Nico, is he the only person to be a host to Anduriel? We have seen coins with different hosts. And that some coins don't get circulated as often as others. But, I think that Nico is the original host to Anduriel.

It is safe to say that Nick is the only host for Anduriel. The coin itself only exist after Judas betrayed Christ which is about 2000 years ago,  and Nick is about that age, so the timing match.

I don't think Nick is redeemable. Especially after SG, Nick already reserved a ticket on the southbound train.

Two millennia the guy rampage across the globe. Two millennia of encounters with Knights of the Cross. Countless chances of redemption must had been offered to Nick for all those years, just like the chance Michael offered him in SG. There is an instance of doubt in Nick's expression, so saying that he does not know the score is not believable. If Nick is redeemable, he would have been redeemed already.

[Arjan]

It is safe to say that Nick is the only host for Anduriel. The coin itself only exist after Judas betrayed Christ which is about 2000 years ago,  and Nick is about that age, so the timing match.

I don't think Nick is redeemable. Especially after SG, Nick already reserved a ticket on the southbound train.

Two millennia the guy rampage across the globe. Two millennia of encounters with Knights of the Cross. Countless chances of redemption must had been offered to Nick for all those years, just like the chance Michael offered him in SG. There is an instance of doubt in Nick's expression, so saying that he does not know the score is not believable. If Nick is redeemable, he would have been redeemed already.

You are right of course but with that attitude you are never going to wield that sword 

[groinkick]

It is safe to say that Nick is the only host for Anduriel. The coin itself only exist after Judas betrayed Christ which is about 2000 years ago,  and Nick is about that age, so the timing match.

I don't think Nick is redeemable. Especially after SG, Nick already reserved a ticket on the southbound train.

Two millennia the guy rampage across the globe. Two millennia of encounters with Knights of the Cross. Countless chances of redemption must had been offered to Nick for all those years, just like the chance Michael offered him in SG. There is an instance of doubt in Nick's expression, so saying that he does not know the score is not believable. If Nick is redeemable, he would have been redeemed already.

Unless Anduriel violated Nicodemus's free will....  I don't think that's the case because of Uriel trying to save Nicodemus, but who knows.

[Arjan]

Unless Anduriel violated Nicodemus's free will....  I don't think that's the case because of Uriel trying to save Nicodemus, but who knows.

Probably Anduriel did not technically violate Nicodemus free will.

[wardenferry419]

You are right of course but with that attitude you are never going to wield that sword 

I am fairly certain that sword might burn me; I am kinda naughty! 

[huangjimmy108]

You are right of course but with that attitude you are never going to wield that sword 

I know that. Harry knows that, Murphy too. Why do you think Harry flat out reject becoming a knight? And why Murphy fail to be a knight so spectacularly?

When Harry sees someone like Nick, he thinks about payback. When Michael sees one, he thinks about helping the guy. In my opinion, neither approach is better than the other, each has it's own merit and demerit.

Even TWG knows this, otherwise the almighty won't be employing a sneaky archangel like Uriel.

If I am an omniscient god, and I can see all possible future, but due to free will, I cannot force one possibility into reality, I won't be sending a KoTC to face a Denarian if there is 0 chance of that particular Denarian from repenting. Michael is sent in SG. For me, It meant that there is a chance, no matter how small, that Nick may choose to repent in SG. As the book shown, Nick did waver for a moment.

However, SG did show us something. Michael did say to Nick that this is perhaps his last chance for redemption. I am afraid the next time Nick show up, Heaven might not send a KoTC to handle him. An agent, most probably Harry, will be facing him and should Nick fail there'll be no more mercy for him. Heaven is merciful, but as we saw in book 12, when "Judgement Almighty" comes calling, Heaven is equally ruthless and absolutely thorough.

[Avernite]

However, SG did show us something. Michael did say to Nick that this is perhaps his last chance for redemption. I am afraid the next time Nick show up, Heaven might not send a KoTC to handle him. An agent, most probably Harry, will be facing him and should Nick fail there'll be no more mercy for him. Heaven is merciful, but as we saw in book 12, when "Judgement Almighty" comes calling, Heaven is equally ruthless and absolutely thorough.

I like your thinking:
TWG does not give the right of judgement to Knights. But He can send others in their stead, which is the judgement in and of itself.

Though in that case, Harry's been sent to foil Nic several times already... what would make a new time different?

[wardenferry419]

Infanticide, maybe?

[huangjimmy108]

I like your thinking:
TWG does not give the right of judgement to Knights. But He can send others in their stead, which is the judgement in and of itself.

Though in that case, Harry's been sent to foil Nic several times already... what would make a new time different?

Actually, Harry tends to bump into Nick and the Denarians by sheer misfortune.

In book 5, Harry got involved because Cassius try to used him to find the shroud, obviously Heaven did not send Harry to deal with the Denarians at the time. He got involved because the Denarians themselves involved him.

Almost the same in book 10. Harry is involved because Harry is the only wizard who is predictable enough to call upon Ivy for arbitration. He is involved because Nick and co scheme for Harry to get involved.

In book 15, Harry is send by Mab, not by TWG. In all 3 cases, Heaven send the KoTC to handle the Denarians , and Harry just cooperated with the KoTC due to mutual interest.

Compare the above with how the KoTC is involved in book 12. They are asked to help, not due to an official mission from god, well, at least not directly, but because Harry which is the sword's custodian at the time requested for aid. A free will human ask Heaven for aid, and Heaven answered. Just like Mab use the free will of the winter knight to do things she herself cannot do, Heaven most likely could act beyond the normal bounds when a qualified mortal ask for it properly.

Not only Harry is a free willed mortal, he is the custodian as well. Harry qualifies. Harry deploy Fid via Murphy and Ammoracchius via Susan, and he ask Sanya to assist as well.  As a result, "Judgement Almighty" comes down upon the red court.

I suspect Nick is about to get the same treatment soon enough. It does tells you something. if a knight leads the team, , it is a mission of Mercy. If the custodian calls the shot, it is a mission of extermination.

[Kindler]

Personally, I've always liked the idea that Nicodemus was the one who sold the Potter's Field to the Temple. For the uninitiated, Judas was guilty over the Crucifixion. In Matthew's account—and Matthew's account only—Judas then hangs himself. It doesn't say where. His death is mentioned in other gospels, but they're all different; one has him crushed by a chariot, and one has him disemboweled, for instance. There's a fourth that's in the Gospel of Judas, but it's considered non-canonical.

There are two conflicting accounts of what Judas did before he died. One (Matthew) says he threw the 30 pieces of silver onto the floor of the Temple, and the clergy didn't want to keep the money for themselves (they specifically called it "blood money"), so they used it to purchase Potter's Field to be a burial site for the poor. Matthew goes on to say he hanged himself, but that's all.

Anyway, we know he hanged himself, because Nicodemus has his bolero necktie. Acts says he was disemboweled, in the Potter's Field, which he actually purchased himself with the money, as an act of repentance.

Personally, in the Dresden Files, I think that both are true, but not completely; I think that Judas bought Potter's Field, then hanged himself there. Nicodemus was the person who had previously owned it, or a representative of a banking institution (one of those usurers Jesus was so uncharacteristically angry at) who handled the transaction. He got the Coins, accepted Anduriel, then spent some time walking around depositing the rest.

All of this is to say that, in my current headcanon, I'm not sure that Nicodemus was "evil" to begin with. I think he was offered power, and he took it. With the options available to him, as time passed, he started to look ahead—decades, centuries in advance. Then he started laying plans. In addition to his own personal devil on his shoulder, Nick started making questionable choices, and kept doing so, until he became the man he is today.

'Course, it's just as likely that he's the Biblical Nicodemus himself, who's mentioned a few times as another apostolic figure. There's a Gospel of Nicodemus, but it's apocryphal. No idea how any of this translates to the Dresden Files, but I figured I'd throw this out there.