So I don't run out of space...
I don't believe that when Bob in GP refers to the Old Ones being driven beyond the Outer Gates he's referring to some sort of event in the mythical past of humanity
Not sure how to explain this one. Depends on how Narrow your Outsiders are... One part of it that's coming into play for the 'used to exist here'. Fearbringer is described as 'deeper' than Mab for a reasoning. Outsiders that we're having trouble with are by and large the spirits of Gods(which might be oxymoronic, as Gods seem to be spiritual first anyway) who died but who don't want to go away. The ones who are part of reality, as the seasons or remember by human history seem to be more inside than out. But there are those killed intentionally whose masks and power were fed into the stone table that have not faded because they are not forgotten by humanity, but who have only a consciousness, no power of their own, and the memetics of them are tied up into the courts as well. The Walkers and Nemesis are on this tier of outsider.
Consider outsiders coming inside under new forms and finding true purpose. Look at Mab's throne room in CD, it's a giants castle. She is the heir to the ice giants. the beings themselves may have retreated beyond reality, but it's because someone else had gathered up the identity and power for herself(which matches the edda's i'm told and the ice queen basically stomping Laffey's nutz for power). Satan I think did this, and the current outsiders have outsider via lovecraftian appearance because that's the current belief for 'outside' in the human mind. Previously Hell was outside reality, and certainly Jotunheim was considered beyond the realms in Nordic myth.
because any large amount of mordite being around on Earth is incompatible with humanity (and we know the DV had an evolutionary-scale history rather than a young-Earth (or young-Yggdrasil) creation because of everyone's favourite tyrannosaurus); I believe he is talking about the Big Bang, and that the Outsiders are not our shadows, but the predecessors of anything resembling rational ordered reality.
Some are, but what's NOT part of reality tends to be more complex and simpler than that perhaps. Specifically we have a woj the Eldest(including Lea) are actually a parts of the human psyche. The Shadow is a very large part connected to the subconscious which I think Nemesis represents perfectly. It's why MM Harry is Harry's Id, you could say Mab is actually Titania's Id, both brought in reality so that shadow doesn't exist/can't be occupied. MW too. and she's a prime suspect for being Outsider relatable. The balance is intentional. Also my point about the Balance between TWC's ideals and Lucifers' in the DF, they are intentionally opposite.
I'm the last person who needs to be assured of that, sometimes it seems I spend half my posts pointing such things out....
Me too lol. If we have the same data, will we come to the same conclusions lol?
I remember the former, and coolness, I'd not connected the usernames.
Oh, there are loads of things I didn't figure out on my own that seemed obvious once other people pointed them out (like for example the location of the Stone Table in SK and Harry's meeting with Malcolm in DB both echoing Demonreach) so I do try to be open to people figuring out stuff I have missed.
Oh yea, me too. Here's one since you brought it up, When Harry goes to the cottage and travels to the Outer Gates, they actually stand on the opening of the Lighthouse/DR to get there. Firmly planting the idea the sleepers are projecting themselves through dreaming to the outer gates to try and get back in. and with your example and the translation of Sidhe as people of the mounds it's possible all three are firmly tied together. Though how that translates is debatable, I've not had any epiphany to align it proper.
I'd certainly like to; please do start a thread.
That seems to me barely one step up from saying that every time anyone claims things are getting bad, it must be Nemesis. One of the things that was set up about Harry very early on is that he is familiar with genre fantasy and SF, that poem is enough of a go-to quote that I am not at all sold on it correlating with Nemesis.
It describes the inversion of time and the way the gyre will wobble do to natural decay.
That's the scale of syncretism I think Jim is largely aiming to avoid, btw; I see nothing to see he'd wish to offend contemporary believers in the Norse deities either. The Fomor are Celtic and he has put them in opposition to a version of Faerie that are more in a post-Celtic tradition than anything else; DV Odin is quite distinct from Faerie, and I suspect the Jotun to be equally distinct from the Fomor as and when we do see them. (Which isn't to say they might not find goals in common. Just like Mab and Odin do, or like that centaur in SK, who given the established reality of Classical mythos in the DV, now reads to me as a Classical expatriate living in Summer.)
Not sure what to say to that, think you have it a bit different than I do here. Jotun are not Fomor, Jotun are what became winter imo. consider if the last apocalypse simply set up the next one for this, and we're mushing the two together.
How many times? The athame and Maeve, and indeed, given post-CD knowledge that Summer and Winter are working together, Aurora. And it's not as if she went seeking out the athame.
I count Molly to, but that's just me lol. She was Nfected from breaking the laws and the fetch ate the Nfection. Notice after he eats her Scarecrow says he's served the queen of air and darkness since before
human history? He is referring to the original. He's fearbringer using the minds eye as the mirror/beacon to find it's way in. That was the goal of the fetches, to fetch and eat her Nfection. which MW I think was allowed to release because... Mab had violated rules containing the Knight whose job killing Nfectee's is. One could say as the Falcon it's the Ladies job to find them.
I think so too.
Not giving anything to distinguish that from Namshiel being her agent she wants to protect and conceal, IMO.
I'm not seeing Mab's reasoning for hiding suspicion of Namshiel from Harry if Namshiel is an enemy, considering how much she uses him against her enemies;and if Namshiel is an enemy, that also leaves the favour Mab owes Andruiel in SG as an unexplained loose end. So without definitive evidence either way, I incline for the explanation that ties up more circumstantial evidence.
You lost me here.
That's kind of neat; I still think that was resurgent Lash, though, and I remain to be convinced Bonnie is not Lash.
Works for me.
Pfft. When new text smashes one of my favourite theories to splinters I abandon it without looking back. (Well, except for still being sad that Morgan and Simon Pietrovich were not a couple.)
No Comment, no comment...
Yes, but the thing that is absolutely key to my methodology, that I seem to have the hardest time persuading other people of, is that the holes are as significant as the clues. The patterns in what people don't say, don't think, don't know, are as important as what they do.
Look at the first two-thirds or so of SK, where Elaine leads Harry around by the nose (until he gets to the Mothers' cabin) in order to get him to steal the Unravelling. Look at SmF where we can see Harry's mind shying away from thinking about his blasting rod, sometimes accompanied by headaches, in places where he would otherwise think of it, even though he has no idea himself that that is going on.
My thing is information dumps on magical reasonings that actually describe something not mentioned. Like beacons in PG and wizards magic being able to summon Outsiders by being crazy enough in woj being why Warlocks are suspect. they create the mirror of their consciousness/beacon inside themselves through their own insanity, and it makes them more and more prone into being that thing as they use the magic. it's a slow possession/replacement.
That could be it, I suppose. I had not thought of that and I like it.
Tell me, do you reckon the Unseelie Incursion of 1994 when wherever-it-was disappeared for a few hours tied in here? I suspect that is set-up for all of Chicago falling into the NN during the BAT or the immediate lead-up.
I think it's going to be a clue for PT actually, I think Mab is going to close a circle around Chicago for the talks, effectively making it part of the NN and under her power directly.
It works for me without needing Nemesis at all, because so very many of the influences on Harry's life are trying to encourage him to give in to accepting dark power for his own selfish ends rather than reasonably doing good. SF has the moment outside the Sells house, FM has him nearly being corrupted by the hexenwulf belt, and in GP he gives in when he burns down Bianca's party and again when he kills Bianca. This pattern's been there since Justin.
Ah, in FM I finger the loups aura for making Harry almost give up on the way out of the Precinct, and the 'old' fireman as uriel providing a balance. The loup, being both mortal and spirit simultaneously gave his aura a human effect with a demigod oomph, it effected Harry directly.
That feels almost the opposite of how I read it, that it is causing evil by providing free will that should not be there.
See my Ursula comment.
Fair enough. I tend to read that voice as the first example we have of the insight Maggie gave Harry, which Lea does a Dumbo's feather job on him with in BR (note that the other time he figures something out that is specifically referred to as insight, it is working out Lea must have bargained with his mother, in SK).
No reason why they can't. I think this again is slightly more moving parts than my notion here though.
Poll