Confused about the Second Law

[cunningrat]

I'm getting ready to start a DFRPG game. I was re-reading all the novels as part of the prep, and ran across the following bit in chapter 7 of _Fool Moon_:

“What are we doing, now?” Bob sniggered. “More weight-loss potions?”
“Look, Bob,” I said. “That was only to get me through a rough month. Someone’s got to pay the rent around here.”
“All right,” Bob said smugly. “You going to get into breast enhancement, then? I’m telling you, that’s where the money is.”

How are these NOT a violation of the Second Law? They are both transformations, and (as per the thaumaturgy section in Paranet Papers) transforming the body in even minor ways skirts afoul of the Second Law. And yet, here is Harry, still with the Doom of Damocles upon him at this point, blithely making weight-loss potions to pay the rent.

What am I missing?

[Sanctaphrax]

Maybe it was a non-transformation-based weight-loss potion. Like an appetite suppressor, or a metabolic accelerator.

[wardenferry419]

Maybe it doesn't count as transformation, which I see as altering one thing into another, so much as increasing/reducing what already exists.

[cunningrat]

Maybe it was a non-transformation-based weight-loss potion. Like an appetite suppressor, or a metabolic accelerator.

Huh. Interesting. So redirecting bodily processes doesn't necessarily count as "transforming" someone. Good to know.

(The problem with this plan, of course, is that Harry -- IMO -- does not have the medical training to mess with someone's body like that and do it safely, but no one's ever accused Harry of excessive caution.)

[wardenferry419]

It is just my on-the-fly answer. But, seems to fit.

[Romulan Cmdr]

Probably was just an appetite suppression. -they arent that hard to do.

[Taran]

I think you have to transform someone significantly. I'm pretty sure that they say it can alter a person's mind.  Turning them into a wolf could affect them in ways that might make them actually act like a wolf.  Or drive them insane.   

Healing doesn't seem to break the law.  I think minor cosmetic changes are fine.  Hunger suppression would work on certain chemicals in the body, just like the Alertness potion that is, essentially caffeine pills.  You could probably do disguises with transformation without too much issue too.  It's just a disguise spell. 

[whitelaughter]

It only violates the 2nd Law if you do. If they do it, frex by drinking a potion you crafted, you are fine. That's why shapeshift is normally done by item.

[wardenferry419]

So, it is more about choice and free will than a violation of the natural order?

[khadgar4606]

plus its the free will portion were recipient drinking wants to loss weight. the moment harry tries to breast enchantment potion bob would freely adds aphrodisiac part and turn drinker to sex crazed person which pops wardens sense of breaking law but harry plays realy simple and safe in that book

[wardenferry419]

If only such potions existed.

[khadgar4606]

If only such potions existed.

in dresden verse I think thats not hard to pull it of only if you do it for your self. its kinda have huge market open for it. cheap painless way for breast job at less then 3 thousand dolars. its a kill

[wardenferry419]

Considering some of the magic user's natures, a kill is probably what it costs.

[whitelaughter]

Given the number of White Court vampires, yeah, hunting down a magical solution would be insanely risky. And remember the guy who said he'd die to be able to 'play like that'? Unseelie pacts would be just as dangerous.
Still, given the risks involved in RW wonder solutions to excess weight, it might still be worthwhile!

As a sideline of a PC I created with a Demesne, I decided to justify his Resources by him providing feasthalls of suckling pig etc to the local Jenny Craig; since the food turns to ectoplasm/evaporates when the clients leave the Demesne, they can gorge without weight gain. All the side effects of gorge/vomiting of course, but he wasn't a terribly nice PC.

Btw, would that be the main reason not to accept food from the Fae? You risk starving to death if you've been living on it? Or does it also open you up to Fae magic?

[Mr. Death]

The reason for the second law is that changing something's form will do trauma do them and change their mind, damaging them. It's referring to forcible shape-changing, like turning someone into a frog.

Weight loss just plain is not the same thing. It's a natural function, not shape-shifting. A weight loss potion probably just boosts metabolism to burn fat faster. Even at its most extreme, it's effectively just removing something from the body, not fundamentally changing the body's form and how it works.

Second Law is more, "What if I chopped off your arm and stuck a crocodile's mouth there instead?" style body horror, not just any slight change to a person's body.