Unsolved Mystery Book3 Cowl

[Arjan]

So as well as convincing Harry, he convinces you ?

I think part of the development through the series overall is Harry learning that not every villain thinks short term, and some of them have smarts enough to pass up immediate gain for more solid longer-term gain.

Then there should be a convincing long term alternative he could have gained from not getting the power which there is not. Convincing people he is dead is totally unimportant because he could simply drop the cowl disguise and take another one.

Killing his competitors is an important goal but that is served by taking the power as well. The goals he does seem to have like promoting the outsiders interests would have been served by taking more power.

There is no convincing reason for him not to take it even if he had other reasons to get involved. He actually started taking it and if he was not planning to take it he could simply have disappeared like he later did, less dangerous and a disguise is disposable anyway.

But he started it so there is no reason not to think he would have finished it.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Then there should be a convincing long term alternative he could have gained from not getting the power which there is not.

As well as the two points of mine you dismissed on this front, there is the larger-scale consequence that the red Court ends up seriously weakened, which also works for me.

But he started it so there is no reason not to think he would have finished it.

He didn't start it; Grevane started it.  Cowl was hiding and invisible until after Harry had disposed of Grevane.  What do you think Cowl would have done there if Harry had not turned up at the right time ?

[wardenferry419]

My guess is that Cowl would have shot Grevane then stepped up to take his place.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

My guess is that Cowl would have shot Grevane then stepped up to take his place.

So, in this line of thinking, why has Cowl not already done so? What is Cowl's motivation for letting Grevane get that close to that much power if it's not stage-managing Harry ?

[Arjan]

As well as the two points of mine you dismissed on this front, there is the larger-scale consequence that the red Court ends up seriously weakened, which also works for me.

He didn't start it; Grevane started it.  Cowl was hiding and invisible until after Harry had disposed of Grevane.  What do you think Cowl would have done there if Harry had not turned up at the right time ?

The athame places Cowl firmly in the outsider camp most probably as their tool. Introducing Nemesis into the Sidhe Courts is simply too big for someone who merely uses the outsiders for his own purposes.

The outsiders want to weaken the Sidhe courts and most probably the white council as well. One of the functions of the seven laws is to keep the outsiders out and a side effect of the hunt for warlocks is the reduction of the number of potential outsider summoners.

There is no reason for Cowl to flush out Grevaine and Corpstaker, they are no hindrance for his plans except as competition for exactly what was happening, the darkhallow.

There was no reason for him to weaken the red court, the red court was his tool against the council and was probably intended as a tool against the winter court later. It had enough enemies so weakening was not an issue, strengthening was and the darkhallow would have been an ideal tool for that.

There was of course reason for Cowl to stirr the red court up but they were doing that fine already and a successful darkhallow followed by the destruction of the senior council would have done that job quite well.

So Cowl did the heavy lifting for the darkhallow while Grevane and Corpstaker were trying to kill each other. He took Bob and freed the erlking so his spirits could have been consumed as well. He helped to get the darkhallow forward and at the end he started taking power, that was the moment Harry started his dead curse and everything spiraled out of hand.

So weakening the red court was not an issue. If anything he wanted them stronger because the Winter court was still far stronger than the red court.

Flushing out Grevaine and Corpstaker was no issue because they were only a problem for the white council, not for him. Unless he wanted the darkhallow because then they would be competition but then the flushing out would be a side effect and not the purpose.

Making Harry think he was dead was no issue either. He was wearing a disguise so it was just simpler to drop it and assume another one if he wanted to disappear without anyone being any wiser.

Getting power was an issue. It would help him with whatever purpose he had and the side effects were not important anyway when the gates were broken.

[wardenferry419]

So, in this line of thinking, why has Cowl not already done so? What is Cowl's motivation for letting Grevane get that close to that much power if it's not stage-managing Harry ?

He was stage-managing but not just Harry. He was waiting for the moment. Kumori showed up behind Harry. So, that meant she was probably monitoring his activities and tracking his path to the vortez. Let the wild card take out the other players. Weaken the opposition and then walk up with strength and seize the power.

[Arjan]

He was stage-managing but not just Harry. He was waiting for the moment. Kumori showed up behind Harry. So, that meant she was probably monitoring his activities and tracking his path to the vortez. Let the wild card take out the other players. Weaken the opposition and then walk up with strength and seize the power.

Everyone was killing each other nicely so he put himself into position to wack the winner and get the prize. He did not know who he was going to confront him at the end of course but his final opponent would be weakened and he would be ready.

Why let someone else get away with the prize when he had done all the hard work?

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

There was no reason for him to weaken the red court, the red court was his tool against the council and was probably intended as a tool against the winter court later.

OK, that's a very different read on things from mine. To my mind the objective of the series villains as a whole is to weaken all the strong supernaturals, mostly by getting them to fight each other.

There was of course reason for Cowl to stirr the red court up but they were doing that fine already and a successful darkhallow followed by the destruction of the senior council would have done that job quite well.

This does depend on believing that a completed Darkhallow would have left a god-tier power actually able to operate on Earth afterwards; we have I think circumstantial evidence that this is not the case, such as Harry explaining in PG that all the old gods are in the NN, and the bassanid in "Last Call" seems to think that was a thing actively and deliberately done.

He helped to get the darkhallow forward and at the end he started taking power

Levitating under the thing is not demonstrated the same thing as taking power.

We know from how quickly Cowl and Kumori vanish in the fight with the Alphas earlier that they are very good at fast gates out (the clue that it's a gate rather than a veil is leaving a lingering smell of the same place Peabody runs to at the end of TC.)  So setting up a quick getaway that looks like a faked death is well within Cowl's capacities there.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

He was stage-managing but not just Harry. He was waiting for the moment. Kumori showed up behind Harry. So, that meant she was probably monitoring his activities and tracking his path to the vortez. Let the wild card take out the other players. Weaken the opposition and then walk up with strength and seize the power.

We know Cowl is Senior Council power level, I am willing to trust Harry's assessment of that.  And we have a reasonable notion of what that means from what we have seen of Senior Council in combat, and more, what we have heard of about Eb's actions.

Given that, Cowl just knocking Carlos out rather than reducing him to a pink mist, just after that bit with Kumori, feels to me like it has to still be a set-up.  If Cowl were ruthlessly killing everyone in his way to get to power, there is no reason to leave Carlos alive there; he sucker punches him far too fast to have to worry about a death curse.

There is also no reason for him to have Kumori put a knife to Harry's throat and keep Harry around as a witness, rather than sucker punching Harry from hiding similarly once Harry has taken out Grevane, unless he is setting up a witness.

[Snark Knight]

Either Susan's or Lea's love for Harry.

To harm the white court, it has to be romantic love between equals (i.e. parent-child love doesn't harm them) and it has to be reciprocated. Harry hella definitely isn't in love with Lea. Occasional lust maybe, but mostly he's afraid of her.

[Arjan]

OK, that's a very different read on things from mine. To my mind the objective of the series villains as a whole is to weaken all the strong supernaturals, mostly by getting them to fight each other.

This does depend on believing that a completed Darkhallow would have left a god-tier power actually able to operate on Earth afterwards; we have I think circumstantial evidence that this is not the case, such as Harry explaining in PG that all the old gods are in the NN, and the bassanid in "Last Call" seems to think that was a thing actively and deliberately done.

Only if you take all the power and even then you can give something up later as Odin shows. The biggest powers are dormant but the lesser powers have quite some influence and can do things. I do not think he necessarily wanted to take it all but...

I do not think Kemmler would have wanted it or anyone would have wanted it if it transformed you into a powerful garden plant. Everyone thought the first thing the new god would do is to eliminate the competition.

If he is really an outsider tool as I think he is not interested in the long term problems of too much power and the effects on himself. He just takes it to kill and break and the rest be damned.

Besides the gates are in the nevernever. He can do quite some damage there. And I do not think the new god Cowl would be concerned with the effect of him being on earth anyway, the more chaos the better.

Levitating under the thing is not demonstrated the same thing as taking power.

He was about to begin, he was so close to it:

The tip of the vortex spun down, danced lightly upon Cowl's lips, and then slipped gently between them. Cowl howled out the last repetition of his chant, his mouth opening wide.

That is more than just levitating. That was why Harry could do so much damage with his staff, Cowl was at his most vulnerable point.

The blow connected, right on what felt like the tip of his upturned jaw, snapping his mouth shut and knocking him to the ground. The vortex abruptly screamed and filled with a furious red light. I choked out a cry and fell down on my right side to the ground

No use making yourself so vulnerable or going so far with the ritual if you are not trying to take a big chunk of power.

We know from how quickly Cowl and Kumori vanish in the fight with the Alphas earlier that they are very good at fast gates out (the clue that it's a gate rather than a veil is leaving a lingering smell of the same place Peabody runs to at the end of TC.)  So setting up a quick getaway that looks like a faked death is well within Cowl's capacities there.

He obviously can get away quickly but I do not think that is sufficient reason to stay behind. The argument is that faking his dead is useless because he is just faking the dead of a fake identity. It forces him to assume another identity otherwise the whole effort would be undone the next time he is seen.

It is no use to fake the dead of a fake identity. It is only usefull to fake the dead of a real one.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

I do not think Kemmler would have wanted it or anyone would have wanted it if it transformed you into a powerful garden plant. Everyone thought the first thing the new god would do is to eliminate the competition.

And that looks to me like exactly the thing you want your competition to believe is possible if it does actually turn you into something nominally powerful but practically useless.

He was about to begin, he was so close to it:
That is more than just levitating. That was why Harry could do so much damage with his staff, Cowl was at his most vulnerable point.

I've read those passages too, and I disagree.  There's no point in faking things unless you fake them convincingly, and I read that as Cowl doing just that; I see no necessary connection between Harry hitting Cowl in the jaw and the vortex flashing red, I find it every bit as convincing that the thing was going to do that just then anyway.

No use making yourself so vulnerable or going so far with the ritual if you are not trying to take a big chunk of power.

No use trying to deceive someone if you are going to fail on plausibility at the key moment; besides, I am arguing that Cowl isn't actually meaningfully vulnerable at that point because he knows he can get away quickly and safely.

The argument is that faking his dead is useless because he is just faking the dead of a fake identity. It forces him to assume another identity otherwise the whole effort would be undone the next time he is seen.

It is no use to fake the dead of a fake identity. It is only usefull to fake the dead of a real one.

As we see earlier in DB, "Cowl" is a recognisable identity; Harry knew him from Bianca's party in GP.  There were lots of other supernaturals at that party, and I see no reason to expect any of the older, serious players to be any less perceptive than Harry.

So "the weird wizard who showed up with an extremely powerful athame at Bianca's party, wearing a hooded robe and distorting his voice in ways that could not scream I AM HIDING MY IDENTITY more if he had a pink neon sign over his head saying that" is an established identity many powerful and dangerous entities could have recognised, and blamed for his part in the subsequent chaos; Winter, at least, is going to want his head at some point in retribution for the damage the athame caused/enabled.  Faking the death of that identity is therefore a worthwhile exercise, to my mind.

[Arjan]

And that looks to me like exactly the thing you want your competition to believe is possible if it does actually turn you into something nominally powerful but practically useless.

We have seen beings at those power levels. They are not useless, they do things. They can even do more if under outsider influence, see Maeve.

An outsider infected after darkhallow Cowl would have been a real disaster.

I've read those passages too, and I disagree.  There's no point in faking things unless you fake them convincingly, and I read that as Cowl doing just that;

And the most convincing way of faking it is just doing it.

I see no necessary connection between Harry hitting Cowl in the jaw and the vortex flashing red, I find it every bit as convincing that the thing was going to do that just then anyway.

Normally it would not end, it would go on until the power was absorbed. But it stopped and that saved a lot of lives.

No use trying to deceive someone if you are going to fail on plausibility at the key moment; besides, I am arguing that Cowl isn't actually meaningfully vulnerable at that point because he knows he can get away quickly and safely.

As we see earlier in DB, "Cowl" is a recognisable identity; Harry knew him from Bianca's party in GP.  There were lots of other supernaturals at that party, and I see no reason to expect any of the older, serious players to be any less perceptive than Harry.

So "the weird wizard who showed up with an extremely powerful athame at Bianca's party, wearing a hooded robe and distorting his voice in ways that could not scream I AM HIDING MY IDENTITY more if he had a pink neon sign over his head saying that" is an established identity many powerful and dangerous entities could have recognised, and blamed for his part in the subsequent chaos; Winter, at least, is going to want his head at some point in retribution for the damage the athame caused/enabled.  Faking the death of that identity is therefore a worthwhile exercise, to my mind.

That is why you use a disposable identity. You can just drop it any time and noone will be any wiser. But he did not drop the identity, he used it again in White Night.

So if he wanted to fake the dead of Cowl it makes no sense to appear as Cowl only a few books later, he could have started a different disguise.