ACCORDED NEUTRAL GROUND

[wardenferry419]

Children make parents talk more than we want to.

[Talby16]

Its very telling that Mac chose to give that speech at that pivotal point in Harry's life.

[Rasins]

On a related topic to Mac: in his speech in Changes about Harry being tested when he finds out that he has a daughter, does it seem to anyone else that Mac is speaking from experience?

Its very telling that Mac chose to give that speech at that pivotal point in Harry's life.

Children make parents talk more than we want to.

Absolutely.  And I've found myself sputtering incomprehensible sounds that are never part of speech, when my kids were involved.

[wardenferry419]

Also, substituting gibberish when I want to say curse words.

[Talby16]

Also, substituting gibberish when I want to say curse words.

New amusing game. Next time I read through the series I am going to replace all of Mac's grunts with swear words. That should add a new slant to the text.

[wardenferry419]

I have done that with some of R2D2 beeps.

[Kindler]

New amusing game. Next time I read through the series I am going to replace all of Mac's grunts with swear words. That should add a new slant to the text.

In ALL CAPS, so he's constantly shouting.

"This is a rough case, Mac," I said.
"F**K," Mac agreed.

[wardenferry419]

Does anyone think that Mac's lack of conversation is a choice or an obligation?

[Talby16]

Does anyone think that Mac's lack of conversation is a choice or an obligation?

I'd go with choice. In my mind he is observing events, not influencing them. Which makes his soliloquy to Harry in Changes all the more important.

[Kindler]

Does anyone think that Mac's lack of conversation is a choice or an obligation?

Doesn't Harry say Mac looks tired or uncomfortable after saying a bunch of words all at once? It might cost him something to speak; not quite an obligation or choice, exactly, but a limitation, if that makes sense. Though it's just as likely that Harry was being snarky.

Regardless, it's an interesting question. What characters or figures in myth and legend have speech limitations? Relatedly, which are notoriously difficult to amuse? I'm rereading Cold Days, and Vaderrung was very pleased with himself when he got Mac to laugh, like it was a particular challenge.

[peregrine]

Doesn't Harry say Mac looks tired or uncomfortable after saying a bunch of words all at once? It might cost him something to speak; not quite an obligation or choice, exactly, but a limitation, if that makes sense. Though it's just as likely that Harry was being snarky.

I'm pretty sure he says much the same thing when Hendricks is doing some thinking, so I'd chalk it up to snark.

It also makes it easier to write tertiary characters when they happen to be taciturn for whatever reason.

[wardenferry419]

Doesn't Harry say Mac looks tired or uncomfortable after saying a bunch of words all at once? It might cost him something to speak; not quite an obligation or choice, exactly, but a limitation, if that makes sense. Though it's just as likely that Harry was being snarky.

Regardless, it's an interesting question. What characters or figures in myth and legend have speech limitations? Relatedly, which are notoriously difficult to amuse? I'm rereading Cold Days, and Vaderrung was very pleased with himself when he got Mac to laugh, like it was a particular challenge.

That is an interesting question about legendary characters with speech limitations. Something I might look into.

[jonas]

Does anyone think that Mac's lack of conversation is a choice or an obligation?

Perhaps like DR his usual voice is not what he uses to communicate, but a preplanned number of monosybllic replies?

[raidem]

I think Vidar, Odin's son, had a speech issue. He becomes the one who avenges his father's death and kills Fenrir.
 A number of theories surround the figure, including theories around potential ritual silence and a Proto-Indo-European basis.

Víđarr is introduced by the enthroned figure of High as "the silent god" with a thick shoe, that he is nearly as strong as the god Thor, and that the gods rely on him in times of immense difficulties.[6]

We do have that short story of the elves that hoard and/or repair shoes in the Dresden Files"

Georges Dumézil theorized that Víđarr represents a cosmic figure from an archetype derived from the Proto-Indo-Europeans.[19] Dumézil stated that he was aligned with both vertical space, due to his placement of his foot on the wolf's lower jaw and his hand on the wolf's upper jaw, and horizontal space, due to his wide step and strong shoe, and that, by killing the wolf, Víđarr keeps the wolf from destroying the cosmos, and the cosmos can thereafter be restored after the destruction resulting from Ragnarök.[19]

[Kindler]

I think Vidar, Odin's son, had a speech issue. He becomes the one who avenges his father's death and kills Fenrir.
 A number of theories surround the figure, including theories around potential ritual silence and a Proto-Indo-European basis.

Víđarr is introduced by the enthroned figure of High as "the silent god" with a thick shoe, that he is nearly as strong as the god Thor, and that the gods rely on him in times of immense difficulties.[6]
Georges Dumézil theorized that Víđarr represents a cosmic figure from an archetype derived from the Proto-Indo-Europeans.[19] Dumézil stated that he was aligned with both vertical space, due to his placement of his foot on the wolf's lower jaw and his hand on the wolf's upper jaw, and horizontal space, due to his wide step and strong shoe, and that, by killing the wolf, Víđarr keeps the wolf from destroying the cosmos, and the cosmos can thereafter be restored after the destruction resulting from Ragnarök.[19]

Interesting. I don't peg Mac as a god or demigod, personally, but the ritual silence aspect may be relevant. "Watcher" might refer to someone watching for Ragnarok, rather than watching for Outsiders. Maybe the Outsiders previously attempted to trigger Ragnarok and failed (circa 1066, by the way), and this time they're trying to trigger the Biblical apocalypse?

Also, anyone else interpret Fenrir as a pack of wolves rather than one big one? Like, a group of Viking lycanthrope berserkers who tried to invade England and failed under the direction of King Harald, ending the Age of Vikings in the weeks leading up to Hastings in 1066 and damaging the English forces enough that they lost to William the Conqueror shortly thereafter? (I'm talking about Stamford Bridge, where legends say a single berserker held off the English army single-handed and took down several dozen of them before the English shot him down from the riverbanks with longbows.)