Nicodemus wants to be God

[groinkick]

Not at all, imagine if Thomas's other half were born through/into him, would he cease being a mortal? or would an immortal being be 'born' into our world? Which means it's less to do with having a 'mortal' underneath and more to do with belonging to reality proper, which by proxy would seem to make one entirely mortal here sans an immortal existence elsewhere simultaneously.

On a (presumed offhand) scale,
1Mortals
2Gods who gave up true immortality to dwell here(Odin/Norse)
3Gods who dwell in the NN but are still of here(fae queens)
4Gods purely of the NN, spiritual deity
5Angels, Those who exist beyond.
6Archangels, those who exist both beyond and here at the same level 

4-6 seem to also house various levels of outsiders though.... *sigh* i'm still working on this obviously. The why forths are holding me back as I can't directly see define the differences between certain groups. Some of them I can presume at and some of them would rely on building up a whole explanation/theory into and of itself.

Well it comes down to if these angels were elevated from the mortal realm.  If they did, you're right.  If they did not, you're not.  I don't know of woj that puts it firmly on either side.

[jonas]

Well it comes down to if these angels were elevated from the mortal realm.  If they did, you're right.  If they did not, you're not.  I don't know of woj that puts it firmly on either side.

Yep, only example I can give is if Lash became the Reaper in GS from existing as part of Harry. Which quite besides this theory is one I put weight behind.(although I prefer Susan myself, the blackness of her representing a metaphor for the tattoo's that helped hold hersefl together in life)

[wardenferry419]

So, the idea is heavily favored that the reaper in GS is someone familar to Harry, like Lash or someone else who died? Might make for a good poll?

[Rasins]

I think we've discussed this before, but ...

If you'll recall, the circle in MacFinn's townhouse was actually three in one circles.

One for purely mortal beings.
One for purely spiritual beings.
One for a mix of mortal and spiritual beings.

I'm thinking someone with an iron will COULD contain Uriel in such a circle.

[Avernite]

I think we've discussed this before, but ...

If you'll recall, the circle in MacFinn's townhouse was actually three in one circles.

One for purely mortal beings.
One for purely spiritual beings.
One for a mix of mortal and spiritual beings.

I'm thinking someone with an iron will COULD contain Uriel in such a circle.

How, though? I don't think Uriel is like Mab or the Erlking in that he has to answer a summons. So he can just glance at the circle, think 'ah no' and appear outside it.

Or he can just use your Name and make you release him.

[groinkick]

I think we've discussed this before, but ...

If you'll recall, the circle in MacFinn's townhouse was actually three in one circles.

One for purely mortal beings.
One for purely spiritual beings.
One for a mix of mortal and spiritual beings.

I'm thinking someone with an iron will COULD contain Uriel in such a circle.

All the will in the world couldn't contain something like Uriel.  Archangels are absolute which is why they are immune to Nemesis.  Their will is simply beyond what anyone is capable of achieving.  If it were possible someone like Nicodemus would have worked with a group of dark wizards to do it. 

[Rasins]

See, I don't agree.  I believe that Free-will has power over those who do not have it.  And intimately Uriel does not have it.

Further, Harry DID summon him in Changes.

And summoning circles are just for summoning, so if he is Summonable, than that circle(s) would possible do the trick.

[Arjan]

There is the circle in demonreach he used to summon Mab.

[Avernite]

See, I don't agree.  I believe that Free-will has power over those who do not have it.  And intimately Uriel does not have it.

Further, Harry DID summon him in Changes.

And summoning circles are just for summoning, so if he is Summonable, than that circle(s) would possible do the trick.

Well... Uriel does have free will. He just only has one Choice.

This, to me, sets him apart from other beings who lack Free Will (like possibly Mab, and certainly nearly everything controlled under Winter Law). Of course Ivy also is partly human, and so locking her in a circle required a whole host of measures to block her Will simply tearing the circle apart... and I rank Uriel more powerful, so it would require a truly imposing effort to even come close to imprisoning him.

In fact, given it took an Archangel to imprison Ivy, who I rank significantly lower on the power totem pole, it wouldn't surprise me if only TWG or the Outer Gods (provided such outsiders exist) could even attempt it - and with TWG, at least, it seems obvious that Falling would have weird interactions with such an attempt.

[groinkick]

Avernite is correct.  Uriel does have free will in that he can make a choice, it just is that if he chooses to misbehave he falls.  Mab on the other hand cannot choose to violate her Mantle.

Also there is a difference in summoning a Being against it's free will, and summoning it and it choosing to answer.  Harry was able to influence Toot because he knows his Name, he summoned Titania but she came by choice, not because he forced her to appear.

Jim said that the entire White Council might be able to take Mab if they had her Name...  I don't see Mab at Uriel's level considering he can destroy a galaxy with a thought. 

I don't see how an individual, or even large number of wizards could summon Uriel against his will.

[Rasins]

Okay, perhaps we are talking about two different but related things.

I'm talking about containing him, not necessarily summoning him.

MacFinn wasn't summoned, he was contained in the triple-circle.  It's my opinion that Uriel could be contained.

Summoned ... I'll have to think on it, but we know that Harry has already summoned him once.

[groinkick]

Okay, perhaps we are talking about two different but related things.

I'm talking about containing him, not necessarily summoning him.

MacFinn wasn't summoned, he was contained in the triple-circle.  It's my opinion that Uriel could be contained.

Summoned ... I'll have to think on it, but we know that Harry has already summoned him once.

I don't believe he can be contained by any mortal construct.  Demon Reach?  Maybe but I agree with Griff that there was some major players involved with that, perhaps even an Archangel's Grace.  Other than that I don't see any little circle holding him.

[exartiem]

See, I don't agree.  I believe that Free-will has power over those who do not have it.  And intimately Uriel does not have it.

Further, Harry DID summon him in Changes.

And summoning circles are just for summoning, so if he is Summonable, than that circle(s) would possible do the trick.

Dude, you can summon a grizzly bear into your tent.  That doesn't mean you're in control of the situation.

[groinkick]

Dude, you can summon a grizzly bear into your tent.  That doesn't mean you're in control of the situation.

[Rasins]

Dude, you can summon a grizzly bear into your tent.  That doesn't mean you're in control of the situation.

On the other hand, just because you dig a pit to trap a boar, doesn't mean it cannot trap/hold a bear.