Author Topic: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?  (Read 18386 times)

Offline Kindler

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2017, 04:44:42 PM »
Yeah, I get it Kindler, but I'm thinking it's a decision, a big decision, that we see, and that makes sense in the circumstances.  Like at the end to let Susan go and not start the war.

Sorry, I meant to respond to you earlier; I think we're generally in agreement. Mine is a pet concept that I'm not willing to let go yet, but the Susan thing is every bit as possible, if not more so, if handled as Gryffyn said. It is not the hill I've chosen to die on just yet, regardless.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2017, 11:27:27 PM »
The difference between one act of reasonable cowardice versus an act of irrational courage.
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Offline Cozarkian

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2017, 12:22:54 AM »
Or the choice to not say he loves Susan, which has consequences that spiral for him.

Absolutely that. The first chapter is Michael grilling Harry about loving Susan and lecturing Harry that he needs to tell her. The book starts and ends with the choice to say I love you so that has to be the big decision to which JB was referring.

Offline Rasins

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2017, 04:37:15 PM »
See, I don't see that bothering him as much as you think.  Sure he did love her, but he was reluctant to say it.  If he never said it, he wouldn't feel regret for it with the way things went down.

Then again, it may have been saying I love you, was the thing that stopped Susan from killing him.
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Offline Cozarkian

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2017, 03:38:54 PM »
Michael asked Harry if he loves Susan on the second page of the book and forces Harry to say it out loud. There is also this beauty of language:

Quote from: Grave Peril, Ch. 1
"Harry Dresden," he said. "You of all people, should know the power of words."

Then, in the last 50 pages of the book, Harry finally tells Susan he loves her, which is the key to enabling him to break Lea's spell and prevent Susan from going full vampire.

Quote from:  GP, Ch. 35
"I love you." Why it worked right then, why the webbing of my godmothers' spell frayed as though the words had been an open flame, I don't know. . . . I'll say this though: Some words have a power that has nothing to do with supernatural forces. ... Those three words are good ones.

Several chapters later we see it was of so much importance to Harry to have said the words "I love you" that he was content to die having said them.

Quote from:  GP, Ch. 38
"I love you," I said, or tried to say to Susan. "I love you." She pressed her mouth to mine. I think she was crying. "Hush" she said. "Harry. Hush. I love you , too." It was done. There was no reason to hold on.

Finally, the book ends with Susan sending a birthday card that only has three words.

Quote from:  GP, Ch. 39
I'll let you guess what three.

In sum, the start and end of the book is about the importance of Harry telling Susan he loves her and the power that those three words have. If Harry doesn't say I love you, he doesn't save Susan (she probably bites him and gets killed by the poison - he passes out and gets killed by Kravos, but Justine does CPR saving him and helping him get his power back). He then kills Bianca and the vampires out of revenge instead of because he is willing to wage war to save Susan. That is the first step down the dark road.



« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 03:51:12 PM by Cozarkian »

Offline Rasins

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2017, 03:53:03 PM »
Cozarkian,

I'm not going to argue with you about this.  I agree.  That is what Grave Peril was about.  Well, one of the things.

However, I'm thinking Mirror Mirror won't be about that choice.  It's an important one, but I don't believe that's the one.
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Offline Cozarkian

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2017, 04:08:37 PM »
Cozarkian,

I'm not going to argue with you about this.  I agree.  That is what Grave Peril was about.  Well, one of the things.

However, I'm thinking Mirror Mirror won't be about that choice.  It's an important one, but I don't believe that's the one.

That's fine, I just wanted to go back and double check the actual text to see if I had missed anything and that all of the evidence had been presented.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2017, 06:26:47 PM »
To be fair, in The Warrior SS, small actions by Harry led to notable corrections of behavior.
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Offline Rasins

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2017, 06:31:51 PM »
corrections by Michael?
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2017, 06:39:29 PM »
Corrections by those individuals he noticed and interacted with while helping Michael.
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Offline Rasins

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2017, 07:08:53 PM »
I'll re-read the story.  I'm not making a connection here.
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Offline Kindler

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2017, 07:54:38 PM »
I'll re-read the story.  I'm not making a connection here.

Like the construction worker; Harry getting on his case about being drunk at work got him the help he needed and prevented a (relatively speaking) minor personal catastrophe for him, as I recall. Small actions lead to personal improvements.

For a guy like Harry, personal changes affect the world stage, because he's been integral in so many major world events.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2017, 08:29:32 PM »
That about sums it up. A sorta Dresden butterfly effect.
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Offline Cozarkian

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2017, 03:13:21 PM »
Back on topic, it occurs to me that Harry already met the real Maeve - in SK. She wasn't any nicer than nemfected Maeve.

Offline Arjan

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Re: Will Harry meet the real Maeve?
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2017, 04:04:59 PM »
Back on topic, it occurs to me that Harry already met the real Maeve - in SK. She wasn't any nicer than nemfected Maeve.
I think she was already nemfected. Why would Nemesis wait?
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