Knight Ceremony [Cold Case Spoilers]

[forumghost]

I think it was to send a message, which is why she put it on Free-view for everyone if Faerie. Secondarily, it was a show of power to Harry, to force him to accept the fact that he is now her Bitch. And lastly it was just because Mab is old-school like that and prefers to do the whole Pomp and Ceremony version of bestowing the Mantle instead of the easy way.

[wardenferry419]

Yeah, Mab really is the kill multiple birds with one stone kinda person.

[Rasins]

I'm of the opinion that the Sex was not part of the actual transference of the WK mantle.

I think the sex was part of the healing of Harry's back AND a show for all of Fairy Mab's power.

[~Shadow~]

People really need to brush up on Summer Knight...half this stuff is already dealt with in that book since we're introduced to all these new characters. Of course the Queen(s) can kill their own Knight, that was why Harry was investigating them in the first place. And he consulted on the matter with Bob. And the mantle 'snaps back' to the nearest Queen no matter who or what ends up killing the Knight. That's why Aurora was able to hide it the way she did.

And unless someone wants to argue that Aurora and Lily did the deed as a means of transferring the mantle to her before Aurora turned her to stone...I think it's a fair bet that either sex is NOT a requirement, just a fun bonus, or that only a Queen (not the Lady) can use that method.

[Bacchus]

If the queen chooses poorly, another queen can come along and take it and bestow it on someone worthy. So, I do think they try to find good recruits to everyone's satisfaction.

small thing
i disagree.
 The books show us that there have been a few hundred years of bad recruits and Mab is far too intelligent for that to be something she didn't want.

My thoughts are that the stuff about her own knight being a threat to her is true. Knights focused on drugs or rape wouldn't be any threat to her, and until now she didn't need a powerful knight or a loyal winter lady.

 Mab Knows that Ragnarök is coming and over the last decade or so it seems quite clear to me that shes been preparing for the war to end all wars.
side theory now it seems to me that mab has delt with both winter ladys, her handmaiden and winter knight  and destroyed the red court id say Titania needs to be delt with next. shes obviously too unstable and depressed to lead the summer fay into war, she would be a massive liability.

also with Harry's mysterious and powerful lineage and his starborness. There are all kinds of interesting plot lines Jim could come up with for Mab wanting a child with Dresden.   Also we didn't see Mab for at least 9 months after she knighted harry and when we did she was visibly weakened and fay have showed a  strong desire to have a child with Dresden before.  Id say he most likely has a changeling child out there with Mab

[Kindler]

small thing
i disagree.
 The books show us that there have been a few hundred years of bad recruits and Mab is far too intelligent for that to be something she didn't want.

My thoughts are that the stuff about her own knight being a threat to her is true. Knights focused on drugs or rape wouldn't be any threat to her, and until now she didn't need a powerful knight or a loyal winter lady.

 Mab Knows that Ragnarök is coming and over the last decade or so it seems quite clear to me that shes been preparing for the war to end all wars.
side theory now it seems to me that mab has delt with both winter ladys, her handmaiden and winter knight  and destroyed the red court id say Titania needs to be delt with next. shes obviously too unstable and depressed to lead the summer fay into war, she would be a massive liability.

also with Harry's mysterious and powerful lineage and his starborness. There are all kinds of interesting plot lines Jim could come up with for Mab wanting a child with Dresden.   Also we didn't see Mab for at least 9 months after she knighted harry and when we did she was visibly weakened and fay have showed a  strong desire to have a child with Dresden before.  Id say he most likely has a changeling child out there with Mab

There's a Word of Jim somewhere that Harry won't have any more of his own kids show up, so if that's the case, I don't think we'll ever see him or her. (Though he shortly thereafter revealed the first line of Peace Talks that indicates

(click to show/hide)

Thomas and Justine are having a baby

to screw with us.)

[Cozarkian]

Of course the Queen(s) can kill their own Knight, that was why Harry was investigating them in the first place.

Which is precisely why Aurora killed the Summer Knight, right? Oh wait, never mind, she made a deal with the Winter Knight to have him kill the Summer Knight, which would be completely pointless and unnecessary if she was capable of doing it herself.

[dspringer1]

I think there might be only two real requriements to get the winter mantle.
1) A queen who is holding the mantle's power decides to make you the winter knight
2) you accept.   

My guess is that Lilly was tricked into accepting, but acceptance was pretty darn important to Mab which implies it is a critical step. 

The only certainties are: 
It cannot require killing the old knight -- as knights die in battle
It cannot require sex as the ladies cannot engage in sex, but can clearly can create knights
It does not require physical presence as harry became the night while his body physically resided in the church
It does require the action of a queen
The night must be mortal (guess, but believe it is solid)

[dspringer1]

I do not think the fact that Aurora used Slate to kill the summer knight proves anything conclusive.   I can think of several good reasons to do so even if Aurora could kill the her own knight.
1) It allows Aurora to honestly say "neither I nor anyone of summer was involved in this murder"
2) It tied Slate more closely to her cause
3) It emotionally distances her from the killing -- after all she probably knew the summer knight for decades and she probably considered him a friend.  As she was wack-a-doodle and a fanatic, she killed him anyway, but that does not mean she did not feel some guilt. 
4) Any evidence left at the scene would point to winter
5) It is possible that Ruhl might have been able to get out a warning to Titania if he was attacked by Aurora.  But attacks by his winter knight counterpart are somewhat normal business.   

[Bacchus]

There's a Word of Jim somewhere that Harry won't have any more of his own kids show up, so if that's the case, I don't think we'll ever see him or her.

oh ... well I obviously didn't know about that WOJ and that pretty much kills my whole theory on that.  Thanks for correcting me , now I have no idea what the sex scene was about.

  maybe some show of dominance or that she owns him but that doesn't really seem right to me.  Maybe having boinked a fae queen will help him in some weird way or allow her to make the knight bond stronger than is normal? i guess body fluids have all types of thaumaturgy uses for tracking and killing people and she has his semen (probably?) but its more her style to just stab him and take some blood.

[jonas]

Plus, the Knights are made of the the queens, they can Harm the Ladies too, i'm sure. Just look at how Harry thought of being stronger than Maeve... I think that's the loop hole. The Lady goes physically violent/berserker upon her partner, not magically. If the Knight really can take the Lady, perhaps the Knight can take the lady mantle to mantle? His driving him to take, hers driving her to lash out but being overwhelmed...

[wardenferry419]

People really need to brush up on Summer Knight...half this stuff is already dealt with in that book since we're introduced to all these new characters. Of course the Queen(s) can kill their own Knight, that was why Harry was investigating them in the first place. And he consulted on the matter with Bob. And the mantle 'snaps back' to the nearest Queen no matter who or what ends up killing the Knight. That's why Aurora was able to hide it the way she did.

And unless someone wants to argue that Aurora and Lily did the deed as a means of transferring the mantle to her before Aurora turned her to stone...I think it's a fair bet that either sex is NOT a requirement, just a fun bonus, or that only a Queen (not the Lady) can use that method.

Yeah, I do plan to brush up on all the books a few months prior to PT relase date. It is part of my habit.

[Snark Knight]

Which is precisely why Aurora killed the Summer Knight, right? Oh wait, never mind, she made a deal with the Winter Knight to have him kill the Summer Knight, which would be completely pointless and unnecessary if she was capable of doing it herself.

I think the point was that it's not so much what Aurora actually did as the fact that the three Summer queens weren't automatically off the table due to inability to have done it that has bearing on the matter.

But I wouldn't draw too much of a conclusion about the rules of how the Knight mantle is passed from the events of Summer Knight. Even though Harry didn't understand it until much later, Mab must have surmised she was setting him to hunt someone infected by Nemesis, capable of breaking an unknown set of the usual hard-and-fast rules.

[Cozarkian]

I think the point was that it's not so much what Aurora actually did as the fact that the three Summer queens weren't automatically off the table due to inability to have done it that has bearing on the matter.

But I wouldn't draw too much of a conclusion about the rules of how the Knight mantle is passed from the events of Summer Knight. Even though Harry didn't understand it until much later, Mab must have surmised she was setting him to hunt someone infected by Nemesis, capable of breaking an unknown set of the usual hard-and-fast rules.

They weren't off the table because Harry doesn't know that the Queen's can't actually kill twlheir own Knight - that isn't information the Far share.

Also, even if the Queens didn't physically kill the Knight they still need to be investigated to determine if they ordered his death or know who did kill him.

Third, Harry was looking for the missing mantle, not just the killer, and one of the summer queens should have had it.

If Aurora could kill the Knight she could have just waited for the the moment the table was about to swap, summoned the Knight to the table, threw him on it and killed him. There wouldn't have been any need to plan ahead and hide the mantle.

[wardenferry419]

I guess mysteries are mysteries because something unexplained happened.