Author Topic: "Conjure by it at your own risk."  (Read 13771 times)

Offline Paviel

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2017, 04:15:41 AM »
Technically, anyone is capable of genocide if somebody else builds a genocide weapon and doesn't keep proper track over where it's pointed.

Anyone astute enough to know and/or care about that technicality would most likely be pretty cautious about conjuring by Harry's name anyway. Such a person would already know that conjurations can be hijacked and used against the conjurer.

For everyone else, who might benefit from a further example of "Piss Harry off at your own risk," Chichen Itza is as good an example as any.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 04:17:15 AM by Paviel »

Offline groinkick

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2017, 04:32:46 AM »
But not everyone can find the will to simply press that button either.

They can if the right buttons are pushed. 
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline jonas

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2017, 04:59:12 AM »
They can if the right buttons are pushed.
At some point there, they wouldn't be the ones pressing the button in the end either.
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Offline Rasins

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2017, 07:20:59 PM »
I'll make sure to have a cold can of Coca-Cola and some Burger King ready as an offering next time.

wouldn't those two things need to be part of the circle you use anyway? 
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

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Offline Mira

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2017, 03:03:04 PM »
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I think part of it is when you someone someone by their true name, you have to have the will to dominate them in order to require them to be summoned. That's why Mother Winter was offended and needed to test Harry to see if he had the will to fight against her will. Similarly Vadderung had to demoonstrate to Harry in Changes he didn't have the Will necessary to challenge the Lords of the Outer Night as was. Yet he was able to with the full power of Winter Behind him.

That is why the scene where full Monty Harry mentally shouts out his full name as he confronts Shark Face in Cold Days is so significant.  It is a serious message not just to Shark Face but to Outsiders in general... page 417

Quote
And I would be damned if I was going to roll over for some punk Outsider and his psychic haymaker.
The words first.  Damned near everything begins with words.
"I am," I breathed, and suddenly the ice was clear of my mouth.
"I am Harry. . ." I panted, and the pain redoubled..
And I laughed.  As if some freak who never had loved enough to know loss could tell me about pain.
I AM HARRY BLACKSTONE COPPERFIELD DRESDEN!" I roared.

Then a little hell begins to break loose... But the point is, Harry is roaring out his full name as a challenge to the Outsiders to try and use it to mess with him...  It is a pointed warning that they do it at their own risk and really the first time Harry uses his name in this manner..

Offline Kindler

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2017, 03:06:39 PM »
That is why the scene where full Monty Harry mentally shouts out his full name as he confronts Shark Face in Cold Days is so significant.  It is a serious message not just to Shark Face but to Outsiders in general... page 417
 
Then a little hell begins to break loose... But the point is, Harry is roaring out his full name as a challenge to the Outsiders to try and use it to mess with him...  It is a pointed warning that they do it at their own risk and really the first time Harry uses his name in this manner..

That's a good point, and certainly a possibility. Could he also have been using his name as a focus to establish his will? Names establish connection, so could he have been using his own to establish a connection with himself? Or was it just an act of defiance?

Offline Mira

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2017, 06:01:59 PM »
That's a good point, and certainly a possibility. Could he also have been using his name as a focus to establish his will? Names establish connection, so could he have been using his own to establish a connection with himself? Or was it just an act of defiance?

An act of defiance, yes, but more than that.  Harry has repeatedly said how dangerous it is for someone to give out their full name.  Remember Chauncy wanted Harry's name before he'd give him any information.  Harry was very careful how much of his full name he gave out and how he pronounced what he did because it could be used to attack him.  But in this case he is roaring it all out for all to hear..  While yes, in his mind, but if the Outsiders could hear or be aware you can be sure that others would be as well.   Harry was making a statement, "here is my name, if you wanta do something with it, go ahead sucka, I dare you!"

Offline dspringer1

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2017, 11:26:08 PM »
Another possibility. 

Harry was roaring out his name because it really helped his defense against the Outsider and his attack to drive the Outsider's mind out of his own.  The Outsider was attacking his mind and soul.  Harry's name is an expression of his mind and soul.  By calling out his own name, Harry was - in effect - heavily reinforcing his mind/soul against attack and simultaneously using that naming to expel the Outsider which did not belong. 

It is an open question what the outsider can do with this name spoken in this context.   After all, the name was not spoken "out loud".  Previous comments indicated that naming was very precise and simply reading his name from his birth certificate (for example) would not help anyone.  I am sure all of Harry's enemies know his full name.  They just do not "KNOW" his full name. 

Offline groinkick

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2017, 03:37:26 AM »
Another possibility. 

Harry was roaring out his name because it really helped his defense against the Outsider and his attack to drive the Outsider's mind out of his own.  The Outsider was attacking his mind and soul.  Harry's name is an expression of his mind and soul.  By calling out his own name, Harry was - in effect - heavily reinforcing his mind/soul against attack and simultaneously using that naming to expel the Outsider which did not belong. 

It is an open question what the outsider can do with this name spoken in this context.   After all, the name was not spoken "out loud".  Previous comments indicated that naming was very precise and simply reading his name from his birth certificate (for example) would not help anyone.  I am sure all of Harry's enemies know his full name.  They just do not "KNOW" his full name.

According to Jim, everyone there heard Harry say his full name.  Then went on to say that Harry isn't vulnerable like other people when it comes to knowing his Name.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Jearend

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2017, 10:46:33 AM »
"So when Jim has Harry do something insane (like Darkhollow on Demon Reach with the Black Staff)"

Uhm so when Harry becomes the most evil character we have come across in the Dresdenverse...
The man whi is content to live alone is iether a beast or a god.-Aristotle

Offline Paviel

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2017, 03:15:17 PM »
How many people within earshot of Harry when he shouted his own name knew about conjuration?

And how many of those people would have the nerve to conjure by Harry's name?

Offline Avernite

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Re: "Conjure by it at your own risk."
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2017, 05:09:13 PM »
I think we should slot White Night into this discussion.

In White Night, Harry uses Elaine's Name to connect with her, and then talk to her - but he only reinforced who she was, he did not somehow control her. Just not sure how to fit that in further.

As regards to conjuring by Harry, the biggest problem is the one Harry faces with the Erlking - containment. You can contain a summoned fairy, but humans have Free Will, and so can cross most circles. Add in his sheer bloody-mindedness, so even the common ways to prevent him crossing the circle (like, say, guarddogs, as used on Ivy) would not necessarily work - and once he's across your circles, you're in a fight for your life.