Author Topic: Why Simon?  (Read 14403 times)

Offline Rasins

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2017, 01:58:30 PM »
Everything a practitioner does seems to leave some sort of signature on their aura, but in that particular case I think it would show as traces of dark but not exactly evil.

What's most perverted about the way Grevane or Corpsetaker raise undead is that they're enslaving human zombies / ghosts to their will. Kumori presumably would have picked up something more similar to the hints of darkness Harry got from raising Sue - in her case because she was saving a life with dark power but not compelling him to obey her, and in Harry's case because it wasn't a person.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but ...

She actually was compelling him.  Compelling him to NOT die.  While most believe this to be a good thing, it's not, necessarily. 
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Offline dspringer1

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2017, 03:43:29 PM »
Totally agree that Simon (if cowl) would be very good at making sure he was not tainted by his work (or the taint was hidden).  I am arguing that there are limits to his ability to prevent/hide taint.   If he is entering the end game, he probably needs to do too much dark magic in too short a time horizon to continue to disguise things reliably.   

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2017, 06:59:46 PM »
Another idea towards Simon=Cowl faking his own death: 

As the vampire expert on the SC, they would have looked to him to take charge against the Reds.  Cowl would have wanted to play both sides against each other and weaken everyone, but it's hard to steathily self-sabotage when you're in the direct spotlight.  If he keeps making the wrong call when the WC is ahead, people are going to start wondering whose side Simon's on.
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2017, 07:12:22 PM »
There could be another possibility.  Someone else stationed at Archangel is Cowl...  That they betrayed Simon, and aided the Red Court.  When it was said that Simon had defended himself from a Death Curse before, perhaps it was Simon's.  Simon targeted multiple targets, Cowl could have been one of them.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline Kindler

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2017, 07:29:37 PM »
There could be another possibility.  Someone else stationed at Archangel is Cowl...  That they betrayed Simon, and aided the Red Court.  When it was said that Simon had defended himself from a Death Curse before, perhaps it was Simon's.  Simon targeted multiple targets, Cowl could have been one of them.

I hadn't considered that. Interesting idea, and perfectly plausible, though narratively it'd be kinda awkward to explain, I think. Imagine Harry uncovering Cowl's identity: "I know how Cowl is. His name is...Steve. Steve Crunderman," and then go on to explain his connection to Simon. It's possible, and it'd be fun to see Harry kind of stumble through an explanation like that.

Here's a question: what was there to know about the Reds that the loss of an expert was really that significant? Everyone knows their main weaknesses; faith magic repels them, sunlight unmasks them, decapitation and blood-bag-stabbin' takes them down. It seems like anything he might know that would be relevant is stuff the Fellowship would, too—locations of Red strongholds, common traits and hunting habits, stuff like that.

Not to speak ill of the fictionally dead, but I think Simon was just padding his resume, like I totally didn't do when I worked as a consultant.

Offline groinkick

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2017, 07:49:41 PM »
I hadn't considered that. Interesting idea, and perfectly plausible, though narratively it'd be kinda awkward to explain, I think. Imagine Harry uncovering Cowl's identity: "I know how Cowl is. His name is...Steve. Steve Crunderman," and then go on to explain his connection to Simon. It's possible, and it'd be fun to see Harry kind of stumble through an explanation like that.

Here's a question: what was there to know about the Reds that the loss of an expert was really that significant? Everyone knows their main weaknesses; faith magic repels them, sunlight unmasks them, decapitation and blood-bag-stabbin' takes them down. It seems like anything he might know that would be relevant is stuff the Fellowship would, too—locations of Red strongholds, common traits and hunting habits, stuff like that.

Not to speak ill of the fictionally dead, but I think Simon was just padding his resume, like I totally didn't do when I worked as a consultant.

Simon's expertise had probably more to do with their secret information.  Hideouts, financial institutions, connections to supernatural beings who will give up information.
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline toodeep

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2017, 07:54:52 PM »
Here's a question: what was there to know about the Reds that the loss of an expert was really that significant?

I would assume it is the more arcane minutia, like when Harry heard that the really old red court vampires could hide from daylight behind their mask and still be active in the daytime.  Harry was like, "what?" but obviously some people knew/suspected this, but the council didn't appear to.  Probably because the main guy who knew this kind of thing on the council got dead before it became important to distribute that kind of information.  He might well have known more about the limits of the King and lords, and known more about the politics.

I've been trying to piece together what was going on the in the politics of the red court ever since Changes and who might have been infected/what their plan was and failing to really be sure.  It sure seemed like Arianna was the one causing issues, and Bianca was her "grandchild" so it seems like she should be connected to it.  But on the other hand, the King was spouting all kinds of things about Arianna not adapting to the coming change while he tried to kill Harry that really sounded like an nfected kind of person talking.  Simon might have been able to know where the drive for war was coming from and known how different factions in the court could be played against each other, when the rest of the White Council didn't even know there were factions.

Offline Rasins

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2017, 03:15:54 PM »
I hadn't considered that. Interesting idea, and perfectly plausible, though narratively it'd be kinda awkward to explain,
Here's a question: what was there to know about the Reds that the loss of an expert was really that significant? Everyone knows their main weaknesses; faith magic repels them, sunlight unmasks them, decapitation and blood-bag-stabbin' takes them down. It seems like anything he might know that would be relevant is stuff the Fellowship would, too—locations of Red strongholds, common traits and hunting habits, stuff like that.

Not to speak ill of the fictionally dead, but I think Simon was just padding his resume, like I totally didn't do when I worked as a consultant.

I took it to mean he was the most knowledgeable about their tactics and the like.  And as GK said, their OTHER assets.
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2017, 03:47:56 PM »
I took it to mean he was the most knowledgeable about their tactics and the like.  And as GK said, their OTHER assets.
Also knowledge of any internal politics that the WC might use to weaken the RC:  which LoON wanted to stick it to which other LoON, who doesn't work well with others, who never really wanted to fight in the first place, etc.
We shall not fail or falter, we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools, and we will finish the job.--Winston Churchill

Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2017, 04:40:59 AM »
We know there are supposed to be magic users in the different vampire courts, but likely specialized in their arts. What if Simon knew about these magics, enough to to create his own versions of the Magics? There is a reason why those seven courts have a seat at the accords.
k moinuddin

Offline Rasins

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2017, 02:55:46 PM »
We know there are supposed to be magic users in the different vampire courts, but likely specialized in their arts. What if Simon knew about these magics, enough to to create his own versions of the Magics? There is a reason why those seven courts have a seat at the accords.

Are they?  I mean the Red assumed that since they were at war with the Wouncil, that the Whites were too.  Now we know they didn't get much support from the Whites, but ... I wonder if it's the Vampire nation that has a seat, rather than each court.
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2017, 02:57:47 PM »
Pretty sure it's each court. I don't think the Jade Court, for instance, would want to be lumped in and represented by the other unrelated courts.

The Black Court (if they have a seat) sure as hell doesn't want to be represented by the Whites.
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Offline Rasins

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2017, 03:42:49 PM »
Pretty sure it's each court. I don't think the Jade Court, for instance, would want to be lumped in and represented by the other unrelated courts.

The Black Court (if they have a seat) sure as hell doesn't want to be represented by the Whites.

I'm just not sure.  I could totally see the Jade court not caring in the least who "represented" them.
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

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Offline Mr. Death

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2017, 04:26:40 PM »
I'm just not sure.  I could totally see the Jade court not caring in the least who "represented" them.
That's like saying that Japan wouldn't care if China represented them at the UN.

If you're a part of an international treaty or agreement that will bind you by law, you absolutely will care who represents you and your interests.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline Rasins

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2017, 04:43:42 PM »
That's like saying that Japan wouldn't care if China represented them at the UN.

If you're a part of an international treaty or agreement that will bind you by law, you absolutely will care who represents you and your interests.

No, I'm thinking more along the lines of Kansas not caring who the US sends to the UN.
At times I wish I had a clone, but then I realize, I could never live with that a-hole.

DV Rasins 2006 BK+++ RP++ JB++++ TH++++ WG+(+?) CL SW++ BC- MC---