Which absent villian will appear in Peace Talks?

[Mr. Death]

I know Harry does this, but I don't know that the Council does this.  Yes they are known as arrogant, but I don't know about the pissing other nations off.

Yeah, that's Harry's rep, not the White Council's. The White Council is almost certainly much more diplomatic than Harry is.

[Rasins]

Yeah, that's Harry's rep, not the White Council's. The White Council is almost certainly much more diplomatic than Harry is.

Exactly.  Especially since we saw them with Arianna in Changes.  Not sure that would have happened if the Wouncil was irritating them all.

[Mr. Death]

The members of Summer are fans of Harry, not winter or the Wouncil.  Same with the Svartalves with Molly.

Here's the thing, though -- Molly's the Winter Lady now. That puts her in charge of a chunk of Winter, and able to act officially representing Winter with the only real oversight being Mab.

Having her as a friend means you do have Winter as a friend.

Harry's situation is similar, if to a lesser extent. He has significant rank in both nations, meaning he's more than just Harry Dresden when acting in official capacity. It might not necessarily make them allies, but both sides are going to be a little more courteous and careful toward him to avoid risking pissing off Mab or the White Council in an official capacity.

[deflated]

I know Harry does this, but I don't know that the Council does this.  Yes they are known as arrogant, but I don't know about the pissing other nations off.

When the RC war went sideways the council was not receiving help from other signatories; it was the Fellowship, etc. that was fighting with them - bitter enemies of the RC. Winter just allowed access to the Paths, buyer beware and it's up to you to avoid the nasties. No-one felt any urge to help the wizards.

Compare that to relationships like the UK & the US over the last 60 years, or even US/Saudi Arabia or the West African mutual defense alliance. The council had nothing and had to go cap in hand to the faerie courts for transport support when they realized they were losing. They were too cocky to cultivate alliances for future unforeseen conflicts and disliked enough that they couldn't drag anyone onto their side without great provocation from the RC. Even the Fomor could get some sort of tentative agreement with other signatories; the council didn't seem to be capable of that.

[kazimmoinuddin]

Fomor are part Sihde, those that lost and were cast out. They are united in revenge, so eventually they will go after the faerie courts. Summer and winter must be aware of this, so even if they appear to side with them, they are expecting the back stab and preparing their own.

[Rasins]

When the RC war went sideways the council was not receiving help from other signatories; it was the Fellowship, etc. that was fighting with them - bitter enemies of the RC. Winter just allowed access to the Paths, buyer beware and it's up to you to avoid the nasties. No-one felt any urge to help the wizards.

Compare that to relationships like the UK & the US over the last 60 years, or even US/Saudi Arabia or the West African mutual defense alliance. The council had nothing and had to go cap in hand to the faerie courts for transport support when they realized they were losing. They were too cocky to cultivate alliances for future unforeseen conflicts and disliked enough that they couldn't drag anyone onto their side without great provocation from the RC. Even the Fomor could get some sort of tentative agreement with other signatories; the council didn't seem to be capable of that.

Actually we don't know.  All we know are those things that Harry put in his books. 

For all we know the Wouncil's financial division may have been working arm-in-arm with other supernatural nations to ruin the Reds.  Or others may have been providing intelligence.  We really don't know.

[Mr. Death]

Actually we don't know.  All we know are those things that Harry put in his books. 

For all we know the Wouncil's financial division may have been working arm-in-arm with other supernatural nations to ruin the Reds.  Or others may have been providing intelligence.  We really don't know.

Also, it's foolish to assume that the small handful of supernatural nations have the same sorts of mutual defense pacts that the 200+ nations on the planet do. They seem to operate mostly independently, and war happens infrequently enough that standing alliances aren't necessary.

So just because everyone didn't jump to help the White Council doesn't mean that it's because the White Council went and pissed every one of them off. It's simply because it's not their problem.

[kazimmoinuddin]

The white council was working with the fellowship quite closely, so enough to find and aid the remains. It might not be an official position, but the remains of the fellowship would be useful assets.

[deflated]

Actually we don't know.  All we know are those things that Harry put in his books. 

For all we know the Wouncil's financial division may have been working arm-in-arm with other supernatural nations to ruin the Reds.  Or others may have been providing intelligence.  We really don't know.

If they were getting help it wasn't at all effective which is pretty much the same thing. The council was on the defensive and in significant trouble. Any hypothetical off-screen assistance was not much more than useless at the rate the council was losing wardens and wizards. It is improbable that a commander like the Merlin could look at the casualties and trends in the war and not make a deal for (for example) a company of Einherjaren for security at each key location if a deal was possible. Just doing that to free up the wardens as an offensive force would have been a huge benefit.

It makes no sense within the context to think that the council were ignoring alliances and it makes no sense that they couldn't offer an incentive (political, financial or magical) that some significant power would be interested in. Unless the big players were too scared of the RC to get involved (also improbable) they had no interest in helping the council.

[Rasins]

Deflated,

I think of the Rampire war as something like a war between the USA and USSR.

There are all kinds of smaller powers, but something between these two no one else can really be very effective against.

[phoenixjustice]

That post about the Eebs is not definitive, it simply said at the time of the curse they were in a high security location in the never never, it never actually said they survived. I am betting the curse did hit them, but it is possible using the malleability of the never never, and the intervention of someone powerful, they could have survived the curse, but they would be deeply dependent, and have lost most of their independence.

Actually it never said the Eebs specifically, just Red Court. I should know, I'm the one who asked and got the WOJ. (Unless there's another WOJ out there that singles them out specifically.)

[kazimmoinuddin]

Were the Eebs the ones who took Maggie and slaughtered her foster family? Such a personal link would make them a good chance to reappear to torment Maggie, and for her to see her father deal with the monsters of her nightmares.

[deflated]

Deflated,

I think of the Rampire war as something like a war between the USA and USSR.

There are all kinds of smaller powers, but something between these two no one else can really be very effective against.

Don't see it. Winter rolls right over RC or Council without blinking. Summer the same. The way the Fomor managed to slot so quickly right into the vacuum left by the RC shows that they are a similarly (or larger) sized organization that can hold their own against either. One of the most notable attacks by the RC was only possible with some minor assistance from the Fomor; if they fully threw in with either side the war would've been over in a month.

[Mr. Death]

Don't see it. Winter rolls right over RC or Council without blinking. Summer the same. The way the Fomor managed to slot so quickly right into the vacuum left by the RC shows that they are a similarly (or larger) sized organization that can hold their own against either. One of the most notable attacks by the RC was only possible with some minor assistance from the Fomor; if they fully threw in with either side the war would've been over in a month.

That doesn't really track.

If the Fomor was as big as the Red Court, they would have been a nation in their own right.

The Fomor have largely gotten by up to now by being an unknown, a surprise that nobody was ready to deal with. They've been sneaky and avoided direct conflict. It's even mentioned that a wizard living in town is enough to keep them out of it or at least severely reduce their activity.

They're a small fish trying to become a bigger fish. It's telling that they're going for these talks after a couple years, when other groups are starting to catch onto and stop what they're doing.

[Froklsnt]

The Fomor seem like they might have numbers but lack heavyweights. Or at least lack heavyweights willing to reveal themselves yet. They've shown very wide reach but haven't flexed much muscle yet. Maybe they have it in reserve, or maybe they don't have it at all. I'd guess the "former."