Hot water

[Rasins]

I meant a regular water heater, with no magic. His reasoning for not having one is that there's ambient magic all the time, so why not just put a permanent circle around a standard water heater to keep the ambient magic out, like Butters did with the GPS in Dead Beat?

I think the pipes coming out of it would "break" the circle.  Though this would be a question for someone like Bob, or Jim, I suppose.

[groinkick]

Actually I think the hot water problem is similar to Harry disrupting guns.  Basically a mistake by Jim.

There is nothing electric near the shower when it comes to it's function in most cases.  The hot water heater is almost always a good distance away.  If Harry's magic moved up the water that could be a problem but water dampens magic so it should have the opposite effect. 

[Kindler]

I think the pipes coming out of it would "break" the circle.  Though this would be a question for someone like Bob, or Jim, I suppose.

Maybe. They'd be close enough to the circle to do it, I suppose. To me, that begs the question: Do circles have effective height in the Dresden Files? If it's something absurd, like, I don't know, seven miles, then I'd say it functionally doesn't matter in all but a handful of cases (such as, for example, when fighting a 7.001-mile-jumping-demon). Or is it mostly to do with intent? I think intent would have to have something to do with it, because otherwise tree branches and things a dozen feet off the ground could mess things up. That falls in line with breaking a circle being an act of will, right? So, if Dresden thought that the pipes would break the circle, then they probably would?

I'm in the middle of my umpteenth yearly reread; I really should have this kind of thing down pat by now.

[Rasins]

Maybe. They'd be close enough to the circle to do it, I suppose. To me, that begs the question: Do circles have effective height in the Dresden Files? If it's something absurd, like, I don't know, seven miles, then I'd say it functionally doesn't matter in all but a handful of cases (such as, for example, when fighting a 7.001-mile-jumping-demon). Or is it mostly to do with intent? I think intent would have to have something to do with it, because otherwise tree branches and things a dozen feet off the ground could mess things up. That falls in line with breaking a circle being an act of will, right? So, if Dresden thought that the pipes would break the circle, then they probably would?

I'm in the middle of my umpteenth yearly reread; I really should have this kind of thing down pat by now.

At one of the recent signings, my son asked Jim about that.  He said it was effectively unlimited in height.  Suggesting that there is no top to the circle.

[Kindler]

At one of the recent signings, my son asked Jim about that.  He said it was effectively unlimited in height.  Suggesting that there is no top to the circle.

Interesting. Good question from your son! I'm always keen to get into the mechanics of how stuff works in these kinds of books.

[jonas]

Actually I think the hot water problem is similar to Harry disrupting guns.  Basically a mistake by Jim.

Instead of again arguing against this... again, i'll instead point out in a vid from the recent Dragoncon  Jim is quoted as saying something to the effect of "Does the plot exist to farther the magical set up or does the way it's set up drive the plot?" His answer was both. An farther point out despite having one of the richer magical set ups I've ever read, He's actually stayed rather tight lipped on the subject beyond his two or three standardized replies.
Coincidence? Id bet pretty much anything the answer on that one but believe what you will, it makes what follows even better...
*face palm* I just got the scarecrows jab at Harry about "or what follows" lmao.

[Paviel]

At one of the recent signings, my son asked Jim about that.  He said it was effectively unlimited in height.  Suggesting that there is no top to the circle.

I'm sure it wouldn't be relevant to the story, but I'm sure there must be some meteorological or astronomical limit to the circle's height. Otherwise, every circle is basically an anti-magic ray that shoots out to the edge of the material universe.

Not that that wouldn't be awesome, but I would expect an anti-magic ray with an infinite range to be a bit harder to build...

[Rasins]

I'm sure it wouldn't be relevant to the story, but I'm sure there must be some meteorological or astronomical limit to the circle's height. Otherwise, every circle is basically an anti-magic ray that shoots out to the edge of the material universe.

Not that that wouldn't be awesome, but I would expect an anti-magic ray with an infinite range to be a bit harder to build...

I'd say there is an effective range that is just beyond anything that is needed.  There for if you had a demon who could jump 7.1 miles, it would extend to 7.2 miles, and so on.

It IS magic, after all.

[jonas]

I'm sure it wouldn't be relevant to the story, but I'm sure there must be some meteorological or astronomical limit to the circle's height. Otherwise, every circle is basically an anti-magic ray that shoots out to the edge of the material universe.

Not that that wouldn't be awesome, but I would expect an anti-magic ray with an infinite range to be a bit harder to build...

Ima have to look for an old, old woj on this... Basically the diameter is defined by the will of the wizard making it, So it does have an upper limit, and it's possible to make it more of a sphere, also offhand Woj about if a wizard were crazy enough they could ground out a circle using a shield as it's root, if you were crazy enough to believe that were possible(yes, this will absolutely come into play in the DF, even if we don't see it directly:) )

[Rasins]

Ima have to look for an old, old woj on this... Basically the diameter is defined by the will of the wizard making it, So it does have an upper limit, and it's possible to make it more of a sphere, also offhand Woj about if a wizard were crazy enough they could ground out a circle using a shield as it's root, if you were crazy enough to believe that were possible(yes, this will absolutely come into play in the DF, even if we don't see it directly:) )

Ground out a Circle?  As it de-power it?  How is that different than just breaking the circle?

[jonas]

Ground out a Circle?  As it de-power it?  How is that different than just breaking the circle?

No, other way around, circles work because their grounded, stable, ect. You could theoretically ground it on a shield, but Jim point's out that's crazy, but not Impossible. You'd just have to actually believe the shield a stable base to ground it on.
Need to find this woj again, it's only a yr or 2 old... should be written somewhere.  I know I read it not listened to it.

[Kindler]

No, other way around, circles work because their grounded, stable, ect. You could theoretically ground it on a shield, but Jim point's out that's crazy, but not Impossible. You'd just have to actually believe the shield a stable base to ground it on.
Need to find this woj again, it's only a yr or 2 old... should be written somewhere.  I know I read it not listened to it.

You mean, for example, if Dresden were to conjure a shield that was circular, he could use the edge of that shield the same way he would use a drawn circle? Am I understanding correctly?

I could see how that would be useful in some situations.

[Rasins]

You mean, for example, if Dresden were to conjure a shield that was circular, he could use the edge of that shield the same way he would use a drawn circle? Am I understanding correctly?

I could see how that would be useful in some situations.

But why?  I mean the ground is already really convenient.

[Kindler]

But why?  I mean the ground is already really convenient.

Harry can bring up a shield almost instantly. He's also used his shield to project a kind of force field as a flat plane before; he could very quickly create a circle trap if he did it around a group of bad dudes from the Nevernever, for example.

[jonas]

You mean, for example, if Dresden were to conjure a shield that was circular, he could use the edge of that shield the same way he would use a drawn circle? Am I understanding correctly?

I could see how that would be useful in some situations.

well I was referring to a solid carry on the arm kinda shield. No comment on if Harry's crazy enough to make a magic circle out of pure magic. :x
@raisins, cause then you could point it at your enemy and maneuver them in front of you while keeping them trapped?