Marvra and Kemmler (Deadbeat)

[Con]

I've always imagined their demon side to be something like a bloodline curse like the Loup Garou curse, not a natural part of the world order, but I guess I could be wrong the emotions they feed on and their antithesis are part of the natural order in a lot of animals. or at least mammals.

I could have been confusing Black Court and White Court in my mind now that you mention it.

[Quantus]

I've always imagined their demon side to be something like a bloodline curse like the Loup Garou curse, not a natural part of the world order, but I guess I could be wrong the emotions they feed on and their antithesis are part of the natural order in a lot of animals. or at least mammals.

I could have been confusing Black Court and White Court in my mind now that you mention it.

What gets me about the White Court and makes me want to say they are more part of Nature than the rest is that they are Born, (can) retain their Soul's, and are "mortal" in the sense of Free Willed beings that could be a Denarian or a Knight or whatever.  Of the 3-7 Vampire Courts out there, that's special so far. 

[jonas]

All this to say I love the idea that the Wampires are a greek mythos offshoot race.  Greek myths were full of that

Mmm i'm gonna make a complete and total Wag off of that, just to see if i'm right myself
In Fight Night

(click to show/hide)

Thomas ends up Harry's tag team partner

Just because if a connection exists, what better place for it to come up?

[LordDresden2]

Combine that with the fact that Drakul is "something entirely unhuman that got trapped in human form" and Dracula created the Black Court "in an effort to win his father's approval"

Could you direct me to a WoJ on that?  That's a new one on me.

[Quantus]

Could you direct me to a WoJ on that?  That's a new one on me.

Sure thing, Here you go.. It's the second part, but the Black Court portion of the "Are they Evil" part is also informative

2015 AMA
Are all red courts and black court vampires evil?
This is a pretty huge question and depends a lot on how you view the world.
Red Court vampires, by definition, to become a vampire, have to murder someone else to become what they are. They have to end another person's life to satisfy a desire that does not /need/ to be satisfied in order for them to continue living. Every single one of them makes a choice to sate that desire rather than allow another human being to live--the Fellowship of St. Giles proves that.

(Of course, there are shades of grey involved--a half-vampire who was kept starving and without water in a basement for three days before they were thrown a mortal has a much more difficult time making a clear-headed choice than a half-vampire who was restrained yet cared for by a group of religiously fanatic monks at a Fellowship stronghold, but there's still a choice being made.)

That could, by some people, be considered a working definition of evil. Sometimes unfortunate, sometimes understandable as to how someone could make that choice, but evil nonetheless.

Black Court Vamps are a different story. They're actually tainted by something hideous and unworldly. They are driven to kill to survive. They don't really have a lot of choice about it. They enjoy being what they are, and doing what they do. They can be sad that they don't have someone who loves them, or upset that the world has passed them by and has changed on them, but at the end of the day, they're basically black-hearts who occasionally pull out a few of the tattered remains of their humanity, fail to fit back into them like they used to, and get maudlin about their glory days when they could watch the sun rise.
And also what is Drakul a scion of?
Drakul wasn't a scion of anything! He was something entirely unhuman that got trapped in human form. Dracula was his half-human child, who naturally had enormous paternal issues, and wound up creating himself as the first Black Court Vampire in an effort to win his father's approval.
It didn't work out so well.

[kazimmoinuddin]

If Drakul really linked to the BCV via Dracula, then I wonder if one can affect the other. I had this theory concerning an altered version of the dark hollow ritual, using the BCV as a fuel source. It could make the ritual work, or some how affect Drakul.

[Con]

If Drakul really linked to the BCV via Dracula, then I wonder if one can affect the other. I had this theory concerning an altered version of the dark hollow ritual, using the BCV as a fuel source. It could make the ritual work, or some how affect Drakul.

Was that you?

damn I thought that was woj. Great theory though man.

I thought the Black Court Elders Dark Hollow was one of the reasons they were a threat to Mab and why she had a hand in stopping them. White Court having got the idea of using printing press to use mortal authorities in part from Mab and the Grimm fairytales.

[jonas]

Was that you?

damn I thought that was woj. Great theory though man.

I thought the Black Court Elders Dark Hollow was one of the reasons they were a threat to Mab and why she had a hand in stopping them. White Court having got the idea of using printing press to use mortal authorities in part from Mab and the Grimm fairytales.

They don't need a hallow though, every time they consume a life they are doing a smaller version of eating spirits. directly from people along with life.... and hopefully not the soul.

[Con]

I think the theory was that during the Black Court Purge, the thirteen Elders of the Black COurt gathered together to perform the Dark Hollow at Tugunska where Ebenezar wiped them out. They were performing the Dark Hollow to survive and ascend from the Purge.

[Quantus]

I think the theory was that during the Black Court Purge, the thirteen Elders of the Black COurt gathered together to perform the Dark Hollow at Tugunska where Ebenezar wiped them out. They were performing the Dark Hollow to survive and ascend from the Purge.

The Darkhallow as we've seen it would need a hell of a lot more Life than an isolated part of Siberia, no? 

[Con]

The Darkhallow as we've seen it would need a hell of a lot more Life than an isolated part of Siberia, no? 

I think the theory was they were going to use the Black Court as the fuel. I dunno I read the theory awhile ago I think when I first joined I'll try to find it.

[Quantus]

I think the theory was they were going to use the Black Court as the fuel. I dunno I read the theory awhile ago I think when I first joined I'll try to find it.

I think that would only get you half-way. Black Court vamps operate on necromantic energy, so they'd be playing the role of the Ghosts for the Darkhallow, but you still need an equivalent amount of Life energy to backfill the space once the Necromantic energy gets sucked in and starts creating the Vacuum.

[Con]

I think that would only get you half-way. Black Court vamps operate on necromantic energy, so they'd be playing the role of the Ghosts for the Darkhallow, but you still need an equivalent amount of Life energy to backfill the space once the Necromantic energy gets sucked in and starts creating the Vacuum.

Well maybe they brought the population with them, I mean how deserted is the area around Chitzen Itza

[Quantus]

Well maybe they brought the population with them, I mean how deserted is the area around Chitzen Itza

It's a dense Jungle, as opposed to a sparcly forested snow desert.  The sort of Life we are talking is on the order of Millions of mortals (and so presumably exponentially more per the Zombie rules), which is not the sort of population you can just import.

[Con]

Hmm I found a post me referencing the theory in part where I mention the theory of Dracula accidentally made the Black Court when he attempted a dark hallow and failed. That it fits with the Black Courts empowerment through the taking of life through necromantic life sucking similar to the dark hallow.

Maybe the Black court thought the build up of life force they'd stolen was enough for the Dark Hallows life supply.