A warden's sword for Harry...

[forumghost]

Nope.  That wasn't an execution, that was a combat situation, and he tried his best to talk her down and when that didn't work, he very specifically used her own magic against her to take her out.  Right on the razor's edge of the First Law, but he is a Warden, after all.

I strongly suspect that at some point Harry will find himself in a situation where he basically has to execute a helpless warlock, using a gun or a blade, in his capacity as a Warden.  Not combat, just cold-blooded killing of a human being who is powerless to fight back or run or otherwise do anything about it.

Like he did with Corpsetaker you mean? No trial, no fight, just shot in the back of the head?

[LordDresden2]

Like he did with Corpsetaker you mean? No trial, no fight, just shot in the back of the head?

Nope.  That was still a combat situation.

Think execution.  The warlock is tied hands behind him/her (knowing Harry's luck, more likely her, and probably a young kid to boot), blindfolded/hooded, 100% helpless.  It's not a fight, it's Harry having to kill a helpless human being in cold blood, the way they beheaded the Korean kid, or Morgan would have had to behead Molly if things had gone the other way.  Though I suspect Harry might prefer to use a gun, if has to do it at all.

The person to be killed is not an immediate threat (though he might be if he gets loose), just a physically and magically helpless human who Harry Dresden has to terminate.

Wardens do that, it's part of the job description, and I strongly suspect Harry will find himself in a situation at some point where he can't get out of it.

The closest thing Harry has done to this, so far, would be killing Lloyd Slate.  That would approximate it.  But even that was not quite the same.

[forumghost]

Nope.  That was still a combat situation.

Think execution.  The warlock is tied hands behind him/her (knowing Harry's luck, more likely her, and probably a young kid to boot), blindfolded/hooded, 100% helpless.  It's not a fight, it's Harry having to kill a helpless human being in cold blood, the way they beheaded the Korean kid, or Morgan would have had to behead Molly if things had gone the other way.  Though I suspect Harry might prefer to use a gun, if has to do it at all.

The person to be killed is not an immediate threat (though he might be if he gets loose), just a physically and magically helpless human who Harry Dresden has to terminate.

Wardens do that, it's part of the job description, and I strongly suspect Harry will find himself in a situation at some point where he can't get out of it.

The closest thing Harry has done to this, so far, would be killing Lloyd Slate.  That would approximate it.  But even that was not quite the same.

I hadn't been wrong--but I'd never... never just killed anyone before. I've killed things in the heat of battle, yes. I've killed people by less direct means. But Corpsetaker's death had been intimate and coldly calculated and not at all indirect....

I'd killed. Deliberately, rationally ended another's life....

I had executed her on suspicion.

No trial. No soulgaze. No judgment from a dispassionate arbiter. Hell, I hadn't even taken the chance to get in a good insult. Bang. Thump. One live wizard, one dead bad guy.

Harry certainly thought of it that way.

[Zaphodess]

Harry certainly thought of it that way.

Yes, but LordDresden is right, it still was a combat situation. A real execution is something else. Though I do think Lloyd Slate qualifies, even if it was a mercy killing too.

[Quantus]

Yes, but LordDresden is right, it still was a combat situation. A real execution is something else. Though I do think Lloyd Slate qualifies, even if it was a mercy killing too.

It might be helpful to others, but it's a distinction that Harry clearly does not buy. 

[LordDresden2]

Yes, but LordDresden is right, it still was a combat situation. A real execution is something else. Though I do think Lloyd Slate qualifies, even if it was a mercy killing too.

It might be helpful to others, but it's a distinction that Harry clearly does not buy.

I'll bet it's a distinction he'd perceive pretty quickly if he found himself tasked with killing a helpless 12-16 year old kid who happened to be a warlock.  Especially if he or she had ended that way after starting out with good intentions, or bad circumstances in ignorance.

I doubt if all the warlocks go out cursing and snarling and threatening like the Korean kid, either.  That might make it a tad easier by emphasizing how far gone the warlock was.  Given Harry's luck, he'd more likely get tears and terrified pleading.  Harry can still remember how terrified he was when he was brought to Edinburgh for trial, even now.

At least Lloyd Slate more-or-less went into things with his eyes open, or should have.  Presumably Aurora didn't force him.  Susan had turned into a Red Vampire and what little part of her remained human consented.  Corpsetaker and Hannah were combat situations.

[khadgar4606]

Oh, you think she survived?  I meant that the execution had already happened at Warden Hands ("there but for the grace of God goes Harry Dresden" -Harry Dresden, Skin Game), and Michael promised they'd talk about it eventually.

i dont think she survied but the chance she finds a new host is so slim that there is literally higher chance that mab doing lap dance to ferrovax in new years eve than her and laschiel getting out of vault of hades alive

[Quantus]

i dont think she survied but the chance she finds a new host is so slim that there is literally higher chance that mab doing lap dance to ferrovax in new years eve than her and laschiel getting out of vault of hades alive

Im talking purely about Hannah the warlock, not the fallen.

[khadgar4606]

Im talking purely about Hannah the warlock, not the fallen.

last time i remember they are sold as single package but there is a chance she can return as one of the gods envoy.

[Quantus]

last time i remember they are sold as single package but there is a chance she can return as one of the gods envoy.

huh?

[kazimmoinuddin]

I always figured that nicodemus was capable of summoning unprotected/un hosted coins when needed. His angelic/hellfire as a key component to the spell.

[Quantus]

I always figured that nicodemus was capable of summoning unprotected/un hosted coins when needed. His angelic/hellfire as a key component to the spell.

I dont see why he'd have any more or less advantage with that compared to any other Coinholder.  Is there anything specific about Nic (or anduriel's skillset) that would give him that sort of supremacy? As far as I know the only ones that can break all the rules to summon a coin that way is somebody with a Shadow already (such as Harry) but not even a former wielder

[kazimmoinuddin]

Those summoning spells would only be useful if you have the sigils and names of all the coins, and those spells would be angelic lore. So only the fallen would be aware of them. So nic would not be the only one capable, any of his order. I assumed him due to him being large and Incharge.

[Zaphodess]

I doubt it very much that Nic is able to simply summon all the Coins. If that was the case, he could have gotten the Coins Harry was holding in SmF on the island.

Even if he could, somehow, Hades certainly could have prevented that in his own demesne.

[Quantus]

I doubt it very much that Nic is able to simply summon all the Coins. If that was the case, he could have gotten the Coins Harry was holding in SmF on the island.

Even if he could, somehow, Hades certainly could have prevented that in his own demesne.

That's a good point, bargaining for the coins was a bog part of that.  Though in that case he was also after swords.  There was speculation during SmF that he was out of coins (and Cassius not getting a replacement after DM supports that somewhat), which was affecting his strategy. 


Another point against all fallen having the capability to summon all the coins:  They Haven't. The Church still flly believes it can and has contained Coins.  Nic is controlled and far-thinking enough to keep up that kind of charade, but relatively few of the others we've seen are, and to some extent that includes the other Shot-caller Tessa.