The most frightening Denarian yet?

[groinkick]

For the longest time I believed Ferrovax was Nemfected at Bianca's ball.  However my brother came up with what I thought was a pretty good idea.  Jim said that Ferro's gift was gold, and jewels.  My brother said that maybe one of the gold coins was from one of the Fallen.

That's a pretty scary prospect right there.  A Dragon joined with a Fallen.  This makes sense for a few of reasons. 

1.  Nicodemus believes the Black Council is working with some of the Fallen, and wants them stopped.  So Cowl getting one of the Fallen he's aligned with to Ferrovax makes sense.

2.  There was an attack on Arctis Tor, and when Harry saw the damage he commented that he couldn't have done that much damage even with Hellfire.  Well a Dragon using hellfire probably could.

3.  We would actually see a fight between a Knight or Knights, and Dragon which sounds like something Jim would want to write. 

[ClintACK]

Isn't there a WoJ out there about seeing something like Kaiju in one of the books?  Ferrovax in his full glory seems like a likely candidate.

Here's the quote: "But yeah – we’ve still got professional wrestling, and dragons, and kaiju and all kinds of cool stuff ahead of us."

So he even mentions dragons right before kaiju.  Perhaps we'll see Ferrovax facing a Cthulhuesque horror rising from the ocean?

Edit:  On the flip side... although we've now seen the Genoskwa take up a coin... I do think there are limits.  A coin-bearer has to have free will.  Mab couldn't take up a coin, I think.  So I'd be surprised if Ferrovax could.  Otherwise, why would all of the Denarians we've met be walking around in flimsy mortal humans?

[jonas]

3 its to be a wizard vs dragon last time I checked that woj. I'd bet Ferro, and at Mabs behest. Cause she don't wanna fight an iron elemental dragon.
The coin isn't something i'd thought of, its possible since he had the roman meat suit he has such a part of himself that's possible to choose but idk. Always figured the centurion part of him because he ate some of that lost roman legion on its way to Alera :0

[peregrine]

Harry could resist the shadow of The Temptress of the Fallen.

How much resistance do you think a Dragon would provide to a similar shadow, and how do you think he would react to an attempt to subvert him?

[jamescagney22]

For the longest time I believed Ferrovax was Nemfected at Bianca's ball.  However my brother came up with what I thought was a pretty good idea.  Jim said that Ferro's gift was gold, and jewels.  My brother said that maybe one of the gold coins was from one of the Fallen.

That's a pretty scary prospect right there.  A Dragon joined with a Fallen.  This makes sense for a few of reasons. 

1.  Nicodemus believes the Black Council is working with some of the Fallen, and wants them stopped.  So Cowl getting one of the Fallen he's aligned with to Ferrovax makes sense.

2.  There was an attack on Arctis Tor, and when Harry saw the damage he commented that he couldn't have done that much damage even with Hellfire.  Well a Dragon using hellfire probably could.

3.  We would actually see a fight between a Knight or Knights, and Dragon which sounds like something Jim would want to write.

I believe you have to be mortal to be affected by the Fallen, Dragons are semi-divine they are immutable and have limitations when in the mortal realm. But an Nemesis infected Dragon might cause a Civil War amongst the other Dragons and Kaiju, or any other supernatural powers whatever causes the most Chaos.

[groinkick]

I believe you have to be mortal to be affected by the Fallen, Dragons are semi-divine they are immutable.  But an Nemesis infected Dragon might cause a Civil War amongst the other Dragons and Kaiju, or any other supernatural powers whatever causes the most Chaos.

Jim described the Angels as immutable when it comes to Nemesis infection.  If a Dragon is immutable I don't see why they would be vulnerable to Nemesis infection.

have limitations when in the mortal realm.

Perhaps but the attack on Arctis tor wasn't in the mortal realm. 

There could be rules on the issue making a Dragon unable to take up a Coin....  A Bigfoot took up a Coin, and Goodman Grey was offered a Coin so we can assume he could take it up.  Coins aren't limited to mortals. 

[Griffyn612]

The coins are silver denari, not gold.

[Snark Knight]

2.  There was an attack on Arctis Tor, and when Harry saw the damage he commented that he couldn't have done that much damage even with Hellfire.  Well a Dragon using hellfire probably could.

Harry had a mere shadow of a Fallen in his head, and some of the Denarians were stronger in their own right than he was as of PG. I would not conclude that the magnitude of damage there could only be attributed to inhumanly powerful hosts - Namshiel probably could have done it alone, or in combination with Tessa and / or Rosanna.

A Bigfoot took up a Coin, and Goodman Grey was offered a Coin so we can assume he could take it up.  Coins aren't limited to mortals.

They're still a great deal closer to mortal-kind than they are to Dragons. I can't really see any of the Fallen risking bonding to something that might realistically be more powerful than they themselves are, and possibly getting stuck as the junior partner.

I'd buy Dragons being susceptible to N-fection more plausibly than them being suitable for coins, but I'm not yet convinced Ferrovax was targeted with either. It seems a little unsurprising for them to have played the same trick on him that they got Lea with, at this point, and the coin theory would just be upscaling the same surprise that the Genoskwa was already used for. I kind of think Jim will have something more out of left field for Mr. Ferro's next appearance.

[LordDresden2]

Jim described the Angels as immutable when it comes to Nemesis infection.  If a Dragon is immutable I don't see why they would be vulnerable to Nemesis infection.

Perhaps but the attack on Arctis tor wasn't in the mortal realm. 

There could be rules on the issue making a Dragon unable to take up a Coin....  A Bigfoot took up a Coin, and Goodman Grey was offered a Coin so we can assume he could take it up.  Coins aren't limited to mortals.

Goodman Grey and Bigfoot are mortals, I think.  From the supernatural POV, I suspect they would count as human.  I'm pretty sure they, and the White Court, for this purpose count as 'free willed mortals'.  You can be mortal and still have a real long lifespan and supernatural power.  Harry is mortal, even though he could theoretically live 400 years and can throw around fireballs.

[Lawgiver]

Years ago, in a television interview, actor Vincent Price was asked, based on his career in horror films, what he considered the most frightening Hollywood Movie Monster was.

His reply: "A man without a conscience."

The Denarians that are so subsumed by the dark angels in their coins don't count; they're more animal than human.

To me, Nicodemus himself is the worst of the lot for the reason Price pointed out.  He's a man - intelligent, educated, utterly ruthless and all but devoid of conscience (issues of his daughter aside).  He is capable of truly horrific acts that would be found few other places... certainly nowhere in the natural animal kingdom on Earth.  One would have to go to the realms of the supernatural to find equal or worse.

Just a thought

[groinkick]

Years ago, in a television interview, actor Vincent Price was asked, based on his career in horror films, what he considered the most frightening Hollywood Movie Monster was.

His reply: "A man without a conscience."

The Denarians that are so subsumed by the dark angels in their coins don't count; they're more animal than human.

To me, Nicodemus himself is the worst of the lot for the reason Price pointed out.  He's a man - intelligent, educated, utterly ruthless and all but devoid of conscience (issues of his daughter aside).  He is capable of truly horrific acts that would be found few other places... certainly nowhere in the natural animal kingdom on Earth.  One would have to go to the realms of the supernatural to find equal or worse.

Just a thought

He has a conscience.  Not much of one, or a twisted one but he has one.  The Joker from the Dark Knight....  That was a person without a conscience

[Quantus]

Jim described the Angels as immutable when it comes to Nemesis infection.  If a Dragon is immutable I don't see why they would be vulnerable to Nemesis infection.

Nemesis doesnt require a Mortal Soul, but a Fallen does.  They need a host with Free Will, the same what the Queens need a Knight with it. 

There could be rules on the issue making a Dragon unable to take up a Coin....  A Bigfoot took up a Coin, and Goodman Grey was offered a Coin so we can assume he could take it up.  Coins aren't limited to mortals.

Goodman Grey still has his Free Will, per WOJ.  And apparently the Bigfoots are just an offshoot hominid, but native to the Mortal World.  White Court are Ageless and "Half-born" but not truly Immortal by the definition provided in CD.   

[Rasins]

I'm more of the opinion of ... Why?

It seems to me that when created, Dragons were created with the purpose of guarding certain aspects of reality.  Angels were created for a similar purpose (sort of).

It seems like a fallen trying to influence, or even take over a Dragon would have a major hard time of it.  Also, wouldn't the knowledge that a Fallen has be more or less redundant for a Dragon?

I just don't see the benefit of a dragon with a coin.

[Quantus]

I'm more of the opinion of ... Why?

It seems to me that when created, Dragons were created with the purpose of guarding certain aspects of reality.  Angels were created for a similar purpose (sort of).

It seems like a fallen trying to influence, or even take over a Dragon would have a major hard time of it.  Also, wouldn't the knowledge that a Fallen has be more or less redundant for a Dragon?

I just don't see the benefit of a dragon with a coin.

Presumably there would be Power in addition to any redundant Knowledge.  But also the Angels are a hell of a lot older than most things even at the divine level; Im not sure if the Dragons (semi-divine though they might be) are at that "Predating Reality, Absolute and immune to Nemesis" level that Angels are purported to be.

[Rasins]

Presumably there would be Power in addition to any redundant Knowledge.  But also the Angels are a hell of a lot older than most things even at the divine level; Im not sure if the Dragons (semi-divine though they might be) are at that "Predating Reality, Absolute and immune to Nemesis" level that Angels are purported to be.

I was talking about taking up a coin, not being nemfected.  I believe that there may be an issue with Ferrofax, but I doubt its either a fallen or nemesis.