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Author Topic: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag  (Read 24036 times)

Offline groinkick

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How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« on: June 02, 2017, 09:47:02 PM »
Jim mentioned that one of the potential power ups for Harry would be a Dark Hallow.  Well nobody expects him to murder a bunch of people so the question is, how?  Don't know if it's been mentioned but my guess is that Harry would have used his knowledge from the book of Kemmler to turn the Red Courts bloodline curse spell which required I believe thousands of lives into a power source that he'd absorb.  Basically a mini Dark Hallow.  He'd probably slaughter the Red Court royalty with this new power, and as a result the Fomor would begin exterminating the Reds that no longer had powerful leadership, and taking their territory leading to where we are right now.

Anyways just something I was thinking about.  What do you think?
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Offline Tiberius

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2017, 04:40:00 AM »
Are we talking about Changes or MM Harry?
If the former, I always thought that Harry would've just go to Graceland, stir the ghosts of the place up, and eat them. Graceland has a lot of spooks, IIRC. If he were to use the Ramps as the power source, he'd be too late because broken back and all that.
If the latter, MM Harry would probably still fuel his darkhallow with the ghosts of Graceland. I don't think that MM Harry is so much different from our own.
Edit: still too early for me to process things, the thread is about Changes  :D not gonna delete the other part of the post.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 04:46:01 AM by Tiberius »
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Offline groinkick

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2017, 05:30:09 AM »
Quote from: Tiberius on June 03, 2017, 04:40:00 AM
Are we talking about Changes or MM Harry?
If the former, I always thought that Harry would've just go to Graceland, stir the ghosts of the place up, and eat them. Graceland has a lot of spooks, IIRC. If he were to use the Ramps as the power source, he'd be too late because broken back and all that.

Well Harry's power up is meant to carry through to all the following books.  Changes was just the catalyst.  So Harry's back being broken probably wouldn't have occurred, after all it's what forced Harry to make the deal with Mab.  If it was written for his power up to be the Dark Hallow then the book would probably be a lot different.  I'm just thinking that the Red's curse is something that was already planned out, but how things fell into place wasn't so cut and dry.
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Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Tiberius

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2017, 09:22:01 PM »
Okay, so the point of divergence is Grave Peril, right?
Harry could've just completed the darkhallow in DB, if the point of divergence was his nervous breakdown regarding Susan, and that would be it.
Still, I think that the darkhallow is the least likely powerup of the three, since it's the most chaotic evil.
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Offline Desden

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2017, 02:55:59 AM »
I always had an idea that harry could have performed the Darkhallow on demonreach. To disastrous ends I'm sure  but it would be interesting.
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Offline phi1601

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2017, 01:15:10 PM »
What bothers me is that he was considering it as a Plan C when talking to Mab.
Quote
I looked at her steadily for a moment. Then I shrugged. "If you don't want to do business,
I'll go elsewhere. I could still call Lasciel's coin to me in a heartbeat--and Nicodemus and the
Denarians would be more than happy to help me. I am also one of the only people alive who
knows how to pull off Kemmler's Darkhallow. So if Nicky and the Nickelheads don't want to
play, I can damned well get the power for myself--and the next time I call your name, I won't
need to be nearly so polite."
At this point he's in a bed paralyzed. Could he have pulled it off in that state? Or was he just bluffing?
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Offline groinkick

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2017, 02:38:28 PM »
Quote from: phi1601 on June 05, 2017, 01:15:10 PM
What bothers me is that he was considering it as a Plan C when talking to Mab.At this point he's in a bed paralyzed. Could he have pulled it off in that state? Or was he just bluffing?

He could I think.  He might need someone to help him to move around but other than that he could pull it off. 
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Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Tiberius

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2017, 07:51:34 PM »
Quote from: groinkick on June 05, 2017, 02:38:28 PM
He could I think.  He might need someone to help him to move around but other than that he could pull it off.
I don't think that anyone that could help him with that would do it. And he probably couldn't do it lying in bed.
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Offline uncanny

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 09:56:07 PM »
Quote from: Tiberius on June 05, 2017, 07:51:34 PM
I don't think that anyone that could help him with that would do it. And he probably couldn't do it lying in bed.
I read the statement a bit differently; that he would call Lasciels coin to get mobility, THEN if the Nickelheads were not going to follow his lead, perform the dark hollow to get the additional power he would need, at which point probably won't even need Lasciels coin either...
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Offline nedserD C B yrraH

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2017, 10:19:41 PM »
Since we know Harry can do magic in his mind the paralysis isn't an obstacle. I assumed he would go Mab, Lash then DH only if the first 2 said no. Nic has already offered to help Harry end the Reds. So the Coin route, to me, would be accepting Lasciel and then several Fallen Angels go save a little girl. The DH is the least like Harry.

But I would bargain with Lea to get me to CI then start the ritual and eat the thousands and thousands of dead that have been killed by the Reds at CI over the millennia. Then smite.
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Offline Mbresle

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 10:54:53 PM »
I don't think it could be done in changes.  Not only not by Harry, but not by anyone.  Per Bob in CD, the mortality of immortals on Halloween is what would have allowed it to work. 
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Offline RobReece

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 11:58:06 PM »
Quote from: Mbresle on June 06, 2017, 10:54:53 PM
I don't think it could be done in changes.  Not only not by Harry, but not by anyone.  Per Bob in CD, the mortality of immortals on Halloween is what would have allowed it to work.
The importance of Halloween is that it's when Immortals become semi mortal, also good for when masks(mantles) are donned and/or removed.  The death of an Immortal wasn't required for the DH, but it was convenient to have the Hunt gathering and stirring up the warrior and hunter spirits. 
On any other day, if Harry, or someone, were to perform the DH just consuming spirits and claiming their power could possibly work, but may not raise them to immortality.  During Changes, Harry would probably have been satisfied by just the accumulation of power, sufficient to smite the Reds and retrieve his daughter... 
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Offline dspringer1

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2017, 09:05:58 PM »
The key word is "potential power ups".   Just like taking a denarian coin would be a potential power up.   There are lots of ways to get power - and many of them are very dark. 
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Offline groinkick

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2017, 03:30:47 AM »
Quote from: dspringer1 on June 07, 2017, 09:05:58 PM
The key word is "potential power ups".   Just like taking a denarian coin would be a potential power up.   There are lots of ways to get power - and many of them are very dark.

Well yeah but Jim said that he was looking at 3 possibilities.  Not that it "could" happen but he was actually looking at them for Harry to do and chose Winter Knight.
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Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline RobReece

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Re: How Harry would do the Dark Hallow in Changes wag
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2017, 02:56:19 PM »
I don't have Grave Peril with me at the moment and it's been a while since I've read it, didn't Harry absorb some of the power of the spirits killed by the Reds?  If I remember correctly, it was only temporary, but wouldn't that have been along the lines of a dark hallow?  Improperly done as it was only temporary, but still in that type of power assumption?
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