Being a bane for technology

[Wanderer]

Since we went on a tangent about magical items, I have a question: the pricing of Item of Power makes a distinction about the item being easy or hard to detect. What about items that are easy to detect, but hard to steal? E.g. a glove, ring, necklace, or belt that glows, hums, or otherwise attracts attention, but is still much harder to steal than a sword or staff. Does this kind of item still earn the higher discount?

[Taran]

It's not really how easily it can be stolen that matters but on how often it's going to inconvenience your character.

A belt that literally hums with power might be looked at in the same light as a firearm, or a Magical sword.  So, while it can't be stolen easily, you might not get access to certain places if you have it on your person and might, therefore, be required to leave it at home or at the door.

That said, a magical sword can be disarmed in combat and a belt cannot.  So it might also depend on what kinds of powers are stored in the item.  If the power of an item only comes into play when in combat and you can't lose it in that situation, then it isn't a hindrance.  Once again, if its power is so obvious that you can't even bring it to combat, then it is a hindrance.

[Wanderer]

Hmm, I'm not sure I may often find it that easy to define if a power would only be useful in combat or not, but I'm doubtful about the character being asked to 'check it out' an obvious wearable item as it were a firearm or melee weapon (and the character going along with the request). And as I said, I'm pretty much only going to use items that cannot be lost or stolen in combat (short of the character being made unconscious or powerless) because I loathe the alternative. So going by your guidelines I suppose any character of mine is only going to use the +1 version of Item of Power, if any.

[Taran]

Yeah.  If it won't inconvenience you much, then you only get 1 point of rebate

[Taran]

Double post.  If you want to be "game-y", you can do this: separate your powers between two item.  One big obvious one with 1 refresh worth of powers: golden lasso that has incite effect: physical blocks.

Then Take bracers (which can be hidden under a jacket) and load them up with powers: Speed, toughness etc...

Since you only get the rebate once regardless of how many items you have, you get the +2 rebate for the lasso.  If you lose the lasso, you only lose 1 refresh worth of powers.

[Wanderer]

Double post.  If you want to be "game-y", you can do this: separate your powers between two item.  One big obvious one with 1 refresh worth of powers: golden lasso that has incite effect: physical blocks.

Then Take bracers (which can be hidden under a jacket) and load them up with powers: Speed, toughness etc...

Since you only get the rebate once regardless of how many items you have, you get the +2 rebate for the lasso.  If you lose the lasso, you only lose 1 refresh worth of powers.

Someone seems to have their imagination affected by recent viewing of a certain movie 

Since I find character optimization an interesting and rewarding intellectual exercise, I do not mind reasonable amounts of gamey-ness in myself and other players.  Worthwhile trick in general, although not so useful for characters that are already built at maximum affordable refresh (you gain one refresh's worth of powers, but you have to raise the power level anyway). Lasso might be a bit too camp for any other character but a clone of WW, but I suppose it could be replaced by a chain whip or somesuch. 

[Taran]

Worthwhile trick in general, although not so useful for characters that are already built at maximum affordable refresh (you gain one refresh's worth of powers, but you have to raise the power level anyway).

Not really, as long as you stick a powers you already planned to buy (or bought) into the iop. 

[Wanderer]

Not really, as long as you stick a powers you already planned to buy (or bought) into the iop.

Speaking in general, of course you are quite right. As it concerns my current character, however, I'm not sure about a -1 Refresh power that I'd wish to give him, fits the concept, and makes sense to embue in a chain whip or the like. Possible options might be Claws or Wings. Alternatively, Incite Emotion, with Fear, Lust, or Despair.

About the latter option, however, if and when I buy this power for a character, in all likelihood it shall have a higher refresh cost, since I prefer it to have the Additional Emotion and Lasting Emotion upgrades. The more 'dark' emotions available (lust, fear, wrath, pain/despair) the better, for combat uses, mental manipulation options, and feeding flexibility if a WCV character. Someday after the changeling wizard concept is done to exhaustion perhaps I'd like trying my hand at the WCV sorcerer one, too.

[Taran]

When I was talking about bracers and lassos, I wasn't specifically talking about your character concept, I was just making a generic example.  But, let's take your character from the other thread

Evocation (-3)
Human Guise (+0)
Inhuman Recovery (-2)
Inhuman Toughness (-2)
The Catch (cold iron, trappings of Summer, and holy stuff) (+3)
Refinement (Evocation - element x2, Evocation – specialty x3) (-5)
Sponsored Magic (Hellfire) (-2)
Unseelie Magic (-2)
Thaumaturgy (-3)
The Sight (-1)
Item of Power (Pendant of Might) (+1), affecting the following:
Inhuman Speed (-2)
Inhuman Strength (-2)

I'm going to assume you have a good enough justification to shuffle your powers slightly.  What I present here is just an example.

Stick The Sight into a pair of crazy, magical 'True Sight' goggles or a helm.  Goggles might not work because you can take them off and stow them but a helmet might be harder to carry around.  (+2 rebate)

You have 5 points of powers as IoP and a +2 rebate.  If you don't have any more powers you'd like to buy, you now have an extra FP to throw around every time you refresh.

But the Sight sounds more like it fits your 'I'm a full Wizard' package.  It might make more sense to put one of your sponsored magics into an obvious item.  Like gauntlets of Winter.  Winter gloves that have spikes in them.  They give you sponsored magic and the GM might be nice and say they are weapon 1 using fists.  Or Casting Winter attack spells in the same zone can be flavoured as punching the target with magically infused gauntlets instead of firing spells(which you could still do, of course).  Ooooh, or freezing people with a touch (block against movement).  Anyways, It's not like you can't cast spells if you don't have them..  You just lose some of the Winter flavour.

I'm not trying to convince you one way or another...just giving an example.

[Wanderer]

Hmm, your idea is not without merit but over time I've grown so accustomed to the notion of my characters' powers being internalized or at least imbued in easy-to-carry, hard-to-lose items that to tie them to something as bulky as an helmet just feels awkward and innatural. However if gauntlets look appropriate for +2 Refresh, they might fall just within the bounds of what I deem acceptable. I suppose the character may carry them tucked in or tied to his belt, or in a backpack with the rest of his ritual tools, when he does not use them. Rather than the Sight or Sponsored Magic, such an item seems fitting to have Claws, Inhuman Speed, and Inhuman Strength enchanted in it. I suppose I might call it Gauntlet of Might.

I don't regard the character being deemed a full wizard that much important. It is only necessary he has Evocation, Thaumaturgy, Sponsored Magic, Toughness powers, enough Refinement to have all elements, and wizardly longevity (which he gets anyway with Inhuman Recovery). He certainly does not care about the White Council and their opinion of him. So being a changeling sorcerer does suffice, and indeed the lowest power-level builds give him that template. But with enough Refresh, having the Sight, some extra Refinement for more generalist bonuses to Evocation, and the above physical abilities sure feels nice to round up the character's power set and make him look and feel close to complete. In comparison, I would not give Soulgaze the time of day, even at free cost. At this point, only Wings, True Shapeshifting, and Swift Transition would remain on my to-buy list.

By the way, besides my own preferences, I realized having a serious problem with tech may encourage characters like mine with an hyperactive Murphyonic field to adopt a semi-nomadic lifestyle. They may draw only so much benefit from mundane equipment and wealth: almost all the items they may use w/o wrecking them by being close are freely available at Average expenses or lower. So unless they have a special interest in owning an especially fancy living space or high-quality library or laboratory facilities (my character doesn't), they may well embrace the rootless lifestyle. So I think Harry living in a rented apartment does make sense, although w/o his perpetual poverty problem, he could perhaps afford a better lifestyle.

As it concerns my character, he may rent apartments or a room in hotels or even live on the road, buy time or trade favors to train in dojos, and carry the vast majority of his ritual tools and personal stuff in a backpack or two. He probably got accustomed not to rely too much on having a library or sanctum. Much like martial-arts training, he likely trades favors with allies and contacts when he has need of such arcane resources (it seems it takes some serious wealth and effort anyway to build high-quality libraries and sanctum facilities), and otherwise he carries the vast majority of his occult lore memorized in his head, or perhaps he makes use of summoned and bound spirits of knowledge. I assume the vast majority of his expenses come from renting, traveling (assuming he does not use the Nevernever, which he probably does to some extent), training, occult research, and ritual materials. Being lecherous/hedonist, in all likelihood he also spends some significant time and money looking for casual sex and partying.

[g33k]

I'm beginning to get a bit of a vibe here for something I haven't seen in this concept, so I offer the notion...  How about making this guy a biker?

Specifically:  he really likes vintage motorcycles.  Restores them, tinkers, etc; especially the German bikes from the 1930's.  The tech is old/simple/reliable enough to be rather Murphyonic-resistant, and adding a "Mechanic" skill lets him fix things (at least sometimes).

It gives him a freedom-of-the-road lifestyle that he isn't likely to get many other ways.

Motorcycle leathers -- gloves / etc -- would let him have "foci" that just seem like "normal attire" for the lifestyle.

"Biker" gives a certain "bad-boy" cachet for some chicks  -- playing into his "lechery" -- plus the "classic" element lets him play a bit upscale from "biker bitch," into the rarefied circles of antique-collectors (and their wives/sisters/daughters).

Aspect it ("The go-to guy for vintage bikes!") to get FP's flowing -- the GM can compel a "breakdown" where he wants you to have an encounter, you can spend a FP for a connection when you want to know someone in the biker- or collector-communities, etc.

Just a thought, fwiw...

[Wanderer]

Your suggestion has merit. Speaking in general, the character concept and personality vibe well with being a biker. Pretty much all his magic items (gloves, rings, bracers, pendants, etc.) may fit within the biker aesthetic. Aspects are too much a limited resource to use one just to make a specific reference to the biker lifestyle, but I suppose I may squeeze in an oblique one ('I Know No Law But Friendship, Honor, And Freedom of the Road'). And he certainly fits being a 'bad boy'.

I'm just doubtful about making him a professional repairman. I admit it would give him some use for points put into Craftmanship, besides repairing his own stuff when wrecked by his Murphyonic field. But making it his job might be at odds with his 'Bane for Technology'  Aspect. Moreover, due to the bloody pyramid system I doubt I can spare the skill points to make his Craftmanship any higher than Average, or Fair at the very most by making some tough choices. And I dunno if that would be enough to represent a professional artisan or dedicated hobbyst.

I'm getting more and more dissatisfied with the pyramid system, and seriously considering houseruling it away like I did with the Laws of Magic. I can certainly see the point of preventing excessive specialization in general, but the rule just seems dysfunctional and getting in the way of good concept ideas, especially at high skill-points-pool levels.

[g33k]

  I'm just doubtful about making him a professional repairman. I admit it would give him some use for points put into Craftmanship, besides repairing his own stuff when wrecked by his Murphyonic field. But making it his job might be at odds with his 'Bane for Technology'  Aspect. Moreover, due to the bloody pyramid system I doubt I can spare the skill points to make his Craftmanship any higher than Average, or Fair at the very most by making some tough choices. And I dunno if that would be enough to represent a professional artisan or dedicated hobbyst.

I wasn't thinking he'd actually be a "professional" (in the sense of making much of his living from it)... just a skill, an Aspect to tap when he needs to, and the various links to disparate subcultures, for FP in both directions; but most of all, the flavor of it just seemed in-keeping with your description.

[Taran]

It would make sense that he could tinker/fix his own bike rather than having to rely on finding a mechanic every time his bike breaks down.  Having +1 or +2 in craftsmanship is the most you need for that kind of thing.

[Wanderer]

I see and agree with the points both of you were making, now I fully understand your intent, and I totally agree about the flavor. I'm just skeptic I can spare such a scarce resource as an Aspect just to make a specific reference to the biker lifestyle, when I need them to cover so many other features of background and personality. I already made an oblique reference to it about 'freedom of the road' being one of the few things the character respects. I suppose I could compress another Aspect to 'Chivalrous Biker and libertine' but that's it. And on second thoughts I can adjust the High Concept to 'Half-Sidhe Sorcerer/Wizard and Martial Artist'.

I already picked Craftsmanship at +1 in the highest power-level builds to appease the pyramid, I happy this angle gives some concept justification to the purchase. I suppose I may anticipate its purchase in lower power-level builds by switching the skill with some other one of minor relevance to the character, such as Contacts or maybe less optimally Investigation or Scholarship (but I assume a character with very high Lore should have some minor proficiency in the latter two skills).

To raise its value to +2 without breaking the bloody pyramid seems rather more difficult. At first glance, I'd have to swap it with Weapons (but I'm uncertain which skill is more valuable and appropriate for a biker, martial artist, and wizard) or with Survival (which seems very fitting for the character's lifestyle). Or to break the symmetry between the Deceit/Empathy or Intimidation/Rapport couples, but I prefer such complementary social skills to have similar scores without a good concept reason to the contrary. Pyramid forced me to put points in skills, such as Burglary and Contacts, I have little use for. I'm getting more and more frustrated with it, and more and more tempted to houserule it away.