If Hades shows up for Peace Talks in Chicago

[groinkick]

Oh, ok, because I definitely thought we were talking about the actual fallen in Coins and whether they could escape DR themselves.  Are you saying you credit the continued "Circulation" of the Coins to Lucy?  Or do you think he has a coin of his own?

Yeah, I think Lucy helps keep them out there.  Well maybe I dunno.  Jim suggested the Coins can reach out, and influence people into releasing them.  Perhaps it would be similar to when Lasciel was in Harry's head, giving him a suggestion he wasn't able to ignore.

Na Lucy isn't in a Coin, they are prisons he put the other Fallen in.

[Quantus]

Yeah, I think Lucy helps keep them out there.  Well maybe I dunno.  Jim suggested the Coins can reach out, and influence people into releasing them.  Perhaps it would be similar to when Lasciel was in Harry's head, giving him a suggestion he wasn't able to ignore.

You know, I dunno. I always attributed it to a more impersonal Balancing Force of the Universe, though in retrospect I was probably actually just giving TWG credit.  But if the answer is "God is doing it" then logically an equally valid answer should be "God's Adversary is doing it".

[kazimmoinuddin]

While I don't doubt the coins can influence others and the world around them, I am betting the whole meant to be in circulation must have been bolstered and inflated by nicodemus efforts.
 The thing is while they are fallen, the denarians can be counted. We know they can be messed with using soulfire, and they seemed vulnerable in the presence of sword of the cross. Also, I wonder if they might have a similar vulnerability on demonreach, due to the fact they were slain there and it's protections are at least able to interfere with some abilities of the fallen.

[Quantus]

While I don't doubt the coins can influence others and the world around them, I am betting the whole meant to be in circulation must have been bolstered and inflated by nicodemus efforts.
 The thing is while they are fallen, the denarians can be counted. We know they can be messed with using soulfire, and they seemed vulnerable in the presence of sword of the cross. Also, I wonder if they might have a similar vulnerability on demonreach, due to the fact they were slain there and it's protections are at least able to interfere with some abilities of the fallen.

fwiw, Anduriel (specifically, not jsut Nic) seems far more afraid of /Mouse/ than anything.  His reactions to Mouse have always been unusually severe

[groinkick]

We know they can be messed with using soulfire, and they seemed vulnerable in the presence of sword of the cross. Also, I wonder if they might have a similar vulnerability on demonreach, due to the fact they were slain there and it's protections are at least able to interfere with some abilities of the fallen.

The Fallen don't have vulnerabilities as much as their hosts do.  Kincaid killed them with bullets.  They can be killed in traditional ways.  The Coin on the other hand hasn't shown a way to even be destroyed, or locked away for an extended period of time. 

For me it really comes down to what Jim has said.  When he said "they are supposed to be in circulation" with regards to them being locked away.  So if I had never heard Jim say that I'd agree that Demon Reach, or Hades should be effective at locking them away.  But the author controls what happens and it seems that the Coins cannot be locked away, not for too long.

[kazimmoinuddin]

While Kincaid did shoot the fallen, it was done in the presence of a knight of the cross. I figure that adds to his chances. Other wise it seems the fallen are easy to take out.

[groinkick]

While Kincaid did shoot the fallen, it was done in the presence of a knight of the cross. I figure that adds to his chances. Other wise it seems the fallen are easy to take out.

I don't think the presence of a Knight renders the Fallen more vulnerable to dying.  The Knight might draw their attention, leaving them open for attack though.  Also Kincaid never misses, probably because of his supernatural abilities. 

[dspringer1]

I have no doubt that angels can be killed - including fallen angels.  But I doubt there is much a mortal -- even a wizard - can do to achieve that outcome.   But i am certain a being like Hades or Mother Winter can do so if they were so motivated (and not otherwise prohibited by their mantle)

[Rasins]

I have no doubt that angels can be killed - including fallen angels.  But I doubt there is much a mortal -- even a wizard - can do to achieve that outcome.   But i am certain a being like Hades or Mother Winter can do so if they were so motivated (and not otherwise prohibited by their mantle)

That being said, Uriel can destroy a galaxy with a thought ... could he destroy a fallen angel?

[dspringer1]

Can destroy a fallen angel - certainly.   Uriel is a lot more powerful than an ordinary angel.

Is permitted to - probably not. 

[Rasins]

Can destroy a fallen angel - certainly.   Uriel is a lot more powerful than an ordinary angel.

Is permitted to - probably not.

I don't know about that.  Michael is an Archangel, yet he didn't just destroy Lucifer's legions.

[groinkick]

I don't know about that.  Michael is an Archangel, yet he didn't just destroy Lucifer's legions.

Like dspbringer said "Is permitted to - probably not. "

Mother Winter's raw power should allow her to smoke most bad guys on Earth.  Her Mantle prevents most action from her.

[kazimmoinuddin]

I totally see the coin collection ending up in the well, not only due to its epic image. The warden has soulfire. His pseudo nephlim spirit of intellect daughter likely has the knowledge of a shadow of the fallen. The knowledge, combined with soul fire, backed by the well has the best chance at permanently containing the coins. Want to bet Bonnie knows all the sigils and names for the nickel heads?

[Drikonn]

That's...an intriguing thought. Once Bonnie gets her bearings it could be a really cool chance to turn the tables. Imagine the look on Michael's face when Dresden tells him he figured out how to permanently deal with a coin

[Quantus]

That being said, Uriel can destroy a galaxy with a thought ... could he destroy a fallen angel?

You know, Now that I think about it, I dont think so.  He probably could act as the Tool to allow TWG destroy a fallen if that were the route to be taken, but I dont think he'd be capable on his own Power (even f her were willing to risk a possible Fall to try it).  If an Archangel could destroy a Fallen I would have expected Lucy to take that route rather than locking up only his worst 30 rivals in such a way that they arguably got /more/ powerful...