When Winter took over at the Outer Gates [Spoilers all, including the DFARPG]

[Wizardofnelson]

How can it be partly Oberon's fault if they haven't spoken since Hastings? Shakespeare is centuries after that. I was wondering about that point too--specifically---they had a love triangle when neither of them were communicating with each other at all!

The former gatekeeper was the father of the author of Dante's Divine Comedy--Alighiero di Bellincione, as revealed in the most recent RPG book.

that would imply his indirect knowledge led him to believe the gates lead through to the heart of hell?

Anywho, Hastings... This iirc my mrs Duck... Is also Around the time the Arthurian legend added on the love triangle aspect and the three sisters (sometimes four...) Morgana, morguise and Elaine... Some of which would make great candidates for the current queens... Height of Norse mythos, they could smacked down their war/weather deity?

[Quantus]

that would imply his indirect knowledge led him to believe the gates lead through to the heart of hell?

Anywho, Hastings... This iirc my mrs Duck... Is also Around the time the Arthurian legend added on the love triangle aspect and the three sisters (sometimes four...) Morgana, morguise and Elaine... Some of which would make great candidates for the current queens... Height of Norse mythos, they could smacked down their war/weather deity?

From what I can gather from a wikipedia level research is that Lancelot and the adultery was added in the Le Chevalier de la Charrette which was published exactly 111 years after the battle of Hastings.  Oddly round number, that...

[Wizardofnelson]

From what I can gather from a wikipedia level research is that Lancelot and the adultery was added in the Le Chevalier de la Charrette which was published exactly 111 years after the battle of Hastings.  Oddly round number, that...

faeires believe In the infinity of the number pi  111 is 3 times 37?

[knnn]

From what I can gather from a wikipedia level research is that Lancelot and the adultery was added in the Le Chevalier de la Charrette which was published exactly 111 years after the battle of Hastings.  Oddly round number, that...

Obviously, "Eleventy-One" is significant because this is the age Biblo is when he passes the One Ring on to Frodo.

[Quantus]

Obviously, "Eleventy-One" is significant because this is the age Biblo is when he passes the One Ring on to Frodo.

Obviously:P

[knnn]

Obviously:P

See, the fact that Uriel makes a point of highlighting passages and writing in the margins of Tolkien's book implies that "Ronald Reuel" was "in" on some important secrets.   The fact that the Mantle of "bearer of the One Ring" was passed on when the bearer reached the age of 111 is a secret clue that the Mantle "born" (or created) at Hastings is modified and passed on 111 years later...

...yeah, I'm going a little crazy with work right now.

[CloakedDestiny]

You know, I never actually made that connection. Reuel is basically Tolkien in the Dresdenverse (although the actual Tolkien may be a different guy). Uriel specifically leaves a LOTR book out for Dresden in SmF. If Reuel is actually Tolkien...well, I don't know where to go with that but it's really neat.

[Avernite]

You know, I never actually made that connection. Reuel is basically Tolkien in the Dresdenverse (although the actual Tolkien may be a different guy). Uriel specifically leaves a LOTR book out for Dresden in SmF. If Reuel is actually Tolkien...well, I don't know where to go with that but it's really neat.

Maybe that makes LotR the anti-Grimm? As in, Grimm's tales were commissioned by Mab to preserve power for the Fae, but Tolkien's stories shifted a lot of understanding round and away from them (including, most clearly articulated in the books, the Goblins being downgraded to 'meh').

Perhaps, it fits. Most of the summery types in LotR come across as strong, with flaws to be sure, but important and viable (not least of which Feänor, the gloriously summery hero who literally burns up upon death). The wintery types are all wicked and frankly degraded mirrors. And the dwarves were Tolkien's take o the Svartalves, which is why he ahd to play nice around them.

[rad]

*puts on tinfoil hat*  The Winter/Summer could have started in a way that had nothing to do with the courts.  If you look back to the old Olympian myths and Skin Game when Hades got hitched Hecate(hint hint) distracts mother in law Demeter so Persephone and him can be left in peace.  Now then, we've got Hecate *cough mother winter cough* and the goddess of the summer and fertility together.  Another part of the myth is when Persephone spent time away from Demeter, Demeter got sad and this is what causes winter.  Maybe, rather than this causing the actual seasons this was the beginning of what would eventually become the courts. 

Maybe, back when the gods stepped down from defending the Outer Gates they created the Shide (crossing wildfae, mortals, and maybe an Olympian) to be their new partly mortal foot soldiers who would not be effected by the waning beliefs of mortals as the gods were.  Then, Hecate and Demeter were put in charge of them which created the Courts. 

Though Hestia, another one of the twelve Olympians who was the goddess of the hearth, fire, and eldest of them could also be Mother Summer. 

[Kannard]

so was Hades then the Warden, and Odin the Gatekeeper? I keep seeing similarities between certain characters and the traits that other characters have in common that could reflect the nature of the position they either hold or may have once held. 

[vultur]

IMO the 'somebody who had lost power' who created the Sidhe 'for a reason' are the Greco-Roman gods, and the splitting of Hecate's Mantle was the means.

If the previous guardians were the Norse, it might have been Aesir vs Vanir rather than Jotuns vs Aesir.

I'd further speculate that the current Mother Winter was the original Hecate, and that while she holds a Fae Mantle she isn't actually a Fae "by species" - which is why she can have iron teeth without being burned. (According to Bob in "Welcome to the Jungle", she'd have originally been a Hecatean Hag.)

[Con]

I think we're forgetting that their used to be more than just two courts of Seelie and Unseelie,

Before the Sidhe Wars"
......
Even before my time, but I've heard all kinds of stories. The Daoine Sidhe, the Tuatha, the Fomor, the Tylwyth Teg, the Shen. Epic alliances, epic betrayals, epic battles, epic weddings, epic sex

So Presumably the Sidhe were amalgamated under the Winter and Summer Courts and the Wyld Fae their purpose was that of preserving the natural world, (both from and for humans), it makes sense that once the human pantheons started loosing power, that the people who protect the natural world would protect it from Outsiders.

I'm curious about what the Sidhe Wars were and how they relate. I really hope that one day Jim does a History of Magic Bathilda Bagshot style.

[Ennys]

Don't forget this scene from Cold Days

(click to show/hide)

Mother Summer’s smile appeared for a moment, dazzling me, and then was gone again. “It was not an imbecilic guess,” she said. “And, yes, she has been known by such names before. But you’ve only guessed the name of one of her masks—not our most powerful name.”

To an extent this implies that there were not separate courts, but one court that was intentionally divided, for which I believe there is a WOJ (for the Knight mantles, but probably still applicable).

Also, one of Mother Winter's mantles is definitely the Baba Yaga, who does have iron teeth. And also 2 sisters in some versions. If you look at Vadderung and the things he can/cannot do in each mantle, it is possible that Mother Winter can only wear the iron teeth when she is using that mantle in particular.

[Warden John Marcone]

Also, one of Mother Winter's mantles is definitely the Baba Yaga, who does have iron teeth. And also 2 sisters in some versions. If you look at Vadderung and the things he can/cannot do in each mantle, it is possible that Mother Winter can only wear the iron teeth when she is using that mantle in particular.

Which brings me back to my question: if Mab is Mother Winter's actual daughter (as said my Mama Summer in SK), who's the poor dumb sop that got it on with Baba Yaga?

Anyway, I love the Pendragon Cycle from Stephen Lawhead, and he incorporates the Sidhe and Atlantis into Arthur's story, fascinating read.  He also talks about (it's been a couple years, I need to go back and reread) like six or seven tribes of the Sidhe, but we've only seen Summer and Winter, plus associated Wyld.  Where did they all go?  If this theory is close, maybe the Sidhe Wars took place just before the changing of the guard?  Sort of like a Battle Royal to see who's tough enough to take over?

You know, I never actually made that connection. Reuel is basically Tolkien in the Dresdenverse (although the actual Tolkien may be a different guy). Uriel specifically leaves a LOTR book out for Dresden in SmF. If Reuel is actually Tolkien...well, I don't know where to go with that but it's really neat.

WoJ is that Reuel is not JRR Tolkien, he was named for him.


Fascinating theory, Serack.

[Avernite]

Which brings me back to my question: if Mab is Mother Winter's actual daughter (as said my Mama Summer in SK), who's the poor dumb sop that got it on with Baba Yaga?

Well, Zeus and other Greek deities were both descended from and had babies with pretty monstrous creatures (creating ever more monsters, it seems). One of them, especially Zeus, might fit (though Mab seems a bit young for an active Greek deity).

Alternatively, since they're not THAT different from the Greek version, it might be a Slavic or Norse godling.