Poll

Assuming he is a wizard, who is Cowl?

Other
13 (4.4%)
An Unmet Character
47 (15.8%)
Arthur Langtry
8 (2.7%)
Joseph "Listens-to-Wind"
0 (0%)
Ebenezer McCoy
4 (1.3%)
Simon Pietrovich
111 (37.4%)
Rashid the Gatekeeper
1 (0.3%)
Gregori Cristos
10 (3.4%)
Justin DuMorne
31 (10.4%)
Heinrich Kemmler
6 (2%)
Aleron LaFortier
3 (1%)
Samuel Peabody
2 (0.7%)
Mister
4 (1.3%)
"Mac" McAnally
2 (0.7%)
Time Travelling Harry Dresden
12 (4%)
Parallel Universe Harry Dresden
23 (7.7%)
Bluebeard
1 (0.3%)
Chandler
0 (0%)
Etienne the Enchanter
0 (0%)
Gomez (sleeping off a potion)
0 (0%)
Luciozzi (on sabbatical)
0 (0%)
Bill Meyers
0 (0%)
Klaus Schneider
2 (0.7%)
Thorsen
0 (0%)
Simmons
0 (0%)
Kostikos
0 (0%)
MacFee (doing a passable impersonation of a man)
0 (0%)
The Warden from Bremen
0 (0%)
The Original Merlin
4 (1.3%)
Montjoy (research trip in the Yucatán)
1 (0.3%)
Binder
0 (0%)
Leonid Kravos
0 (0%)
Victor Sells
1 (0.3%)
Aristedes
0 (0%)
Lucky
0 (0%)
Martha Liberty (doing a passable impersonation of a man)
1 (0.3%)
The Mailman from Storm Front
3 (1%)
Grevane
0 (0%)
Anthony Forthill
1 (0.3%)
Gregory Taggart (because why not)
0 (0%)
Father Paolo
1 (0.3%)
Benson Hagglethorn
0 (0%)
Larry Fowler
1 (0.3%)
Billy Sells
2 (0.7%)
Detective Green
0 (0%)
Nicholas Christian
0 (0%)
Malcolm Dresden
0 (0%)
Greg Beckitt
0 (0%)
Mike the Mechanic
2 (0.7%)
Richard/Rich/Rick/Dick
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 297

Author Topic: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]  (Read 184160 times)

Offline Yuillegan

  • White Council
  • Posty McPostington
  • *****
  • Posts: 1384
  • Forum Moderator
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #240 on: October 29, 2018, 09:02:52 AM »
Despite my above post - having been rereading every Cowl and Kumori scene I do have an alternative theory. This is a little less thought out than my previous one but it sort of bubbled up in my brain.

The other best possibility for the two is Harry and Molly - either TT or more likely I suspect, from another alternate timeline. There are a few connections but the whole thing DonBugen said about how Cowl's physical description is almost non-existent, apart from his clothing. It is almost feels intentional, like JB deliberately trying not to give too many clues away.

Also Cowl's style of talking is eerily similar to Id-Harry's, and Kumori's is similar to Molly's. Especially that conversation that Harry and Kumori have in the stairwell. It is almost familial yet frustrated. What I did notice is how Justin and Elaine speak is not very similar to Cowl and Kumori. Not too far off either, but enough to make me think there is another possibility. Perhaps it just how JB writes, but the way Cowl and Id-Harry speak and interact is calm, measured, focused, logical and highly confident. None of Harry's insecurity, worry, wiseassery, humour, uncomfortableness or self-righteousness and at times almost fanatical/borderline illogical rage. 

If Cowl is Harry a few things might connect. Their magical skill set seems to be very similar. Dark Harry could quite easily be as strong as anyone Harry had encountered previously.

Also Cowl and Kumori don't use wands, staffs or just about any other paraphernalia that wizards use (with the notable exception of Kumori's mesh glove - which may or may not be a magical foci). Harry and Molly currently use them less and less. Cowl also seems perfectly happy to use a gun, which is pretty rare amongst Wizards, especially older ones.

If Cowl is an unnamed/unmet character why has he allowed Dresden to live? Clearly he wants him alive. He could have shot him in the back of the head when he attempted to bind the Erlking in Dead Beat. Most of the Cowl possibilities would have no good reason not to have killed Dresden unless there is an ulterior motive, he is too much of a impediment to Cowl's plans.

Also as someone else pointed out - Molly also uses japanese as her spell words. And of course we all remember the dark-molly possibility in the mirror. 

Hi, I'm a moderator. We're here to help. Please remain calm. Don't go outdoors.

Offline wardenferry419

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5265
  • Can I get a Hells Bells !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #241 on: November 06, 2018, 12:51:12 PM »
Good theorizing. I have liked Elaine as Kumori for a long time. Cowl is a little harder to nail down.
Make Mine Butcher!
Who do I have to turn to ice to get a whiskey on the rocks?

Offline DonBugen

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 200
  • All hours are midnight now.
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #242 on: March 08, 2019, 10:04:49 PM »
Hey, it's me.  That guy who dropped a way too long theory back in 2017 on page 10, then wandered off for a while.

Anyways, I was re-listening to Dead Beat for the bajillionth time, and there was a thought which struck me that I couldn't account for.

Bob's loyalty and services belong to the person who possesses the skull.  Right about when the dominoes start falling toward the final dramatic conclusion, Cowl grabs the skull, and Bob's loyalties shift.  Dresden doesn't get Bob's loyalty back again, until Cowl puts the skull down.

So, two questions.

1.  How does Harry get Bob's loyalty back?  He talks to him, sure, mentions that he named Bob.  But would calling him by name give him access to his loyalty?  Not on its own, I don't think.  The true name establishes a magical connection between the namer and the one being named, but nothing more - and it's not like Harry does any magic to get Bob to switch sides.  However, if Harry and Cowl were arguably, magically the same person, the relinquishment of the skull, the loss of physical contact could have meant that both Cowl and Harry had equal claim to Bob.

2.  How does Cowl know that Harry had Bob?  This is worth thinking about.  The wardens and council knew that Kemmler had an air spirit within a skull, but believed it to be destroyed.  Bob's the kind of thing that you keep under wraps, in any case, simply because of who might be after it.  Neither Corpsetaker nor Grevane ever consider going after the little air spirit that Kemmler possessed.  But Cowl does.  He considers the pursuit of the numbers unnecessary; never tries once to look into Tony or try to get Butters - because he doesn't need to.

I mean, seriously.  If  Cowl is nothing more than the first version of Dresden, a version who had to make a lot more hard, questionable choices and went down the wrong path, essentially screwed up the future royally, and went back in time to change things...  literally, everything in Dead Beat makes sense.  Everything.  I mean, consider the surprise that Kumori showed when finding out that Harry had burned his hand.  Why surprise?  Because perhaps in the original timeline, Dresden hadn't burned his hand because he hadn't gotten into a feud with Mavra.  Why, in any case, would Kumori even entertain the idea that Dresden could shelter her, help her, and consider going against Cowl when she confronts him after leaving Sheila's apartment?

Because Harry Dresden helped her before, and she trusts him.

If it's not Harry, then who else do we have?  We have Elaine, who has some actual merit, but does not handle power in the same way that Cowl does.  Maybe Elaine could be Kumori, but honestly, she was hiding in Summer until book 4; it's doubtful that she went for a jaunt to a vampire ball just a year earlier.

Simon?  I'm sorry; Simon has had absolutely no plot significance for the majority of the series.  He's a footnote in Ebenezer McCoy's story, and little more.  It's true that he *could* have done it, but there's been almost no buildup.  In fact, when Ebenezer fights at Chichen Itza, he shouts, "Remember Archangel!"  Not "Remember Simon!"  Perfect opportunity to drop hints for the future and remind the readers that Simon is a relevant person, and Butcher doesn't.

But Butcher's been dropping hints, again and again, about how time travel works, the effects of it, showing evidence of it, and dropped one pretty big Chekhov's Gun in the form of the Law of Conservation of History.  Harry's conversation with Vadderung makes absolutely no sense at all, plot-wise, unless it's true.  There's far, far more evidence for this being a time-traveled Harry Dresden than it being anyone else.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 10:07:30 PM by DonBugen »

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2365
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #243 on: June 17, 2019, 03:09:07 AM »
If it's not Harry, then who else do we have?  We have Elaine, who has some actual merit, but does not handle power in the same way that Cowl does.  Maybe Elaine could be Kumori, but honestly, she was hiding in Summer until book 4; it's doubtful that she went for a jaunt to a vampire ball just a year earlier...
Yeah, came here to drop this point, found it en passant if his main point.

RE some alt-Harry (TT?  MM?  Other Alt?) being Cowl ... I agree that it looks more likely (or at least as likely) as any other theory I've seen.

But Kumori cannot be Elaine (at least, not unless she was an Alt-Elainr (which would nicely match an Alt Harry, of course)), because Elaine-prime has been too busy being Aurora's bitch, and then being LA's version of Harry Dresden (under the watchful eye of the WC & wardens).  There was no TIME for her to become a 3rd-gen Kemmlerite.

Obviously, TT-Elaine would have all the time she (or rather, JB) needed!

By the same token, MM-Elaine could have found Cowl (instead of Aurora) when fleeing to safety.

So:  NOT Elaine, unless it's an Alt-Elaine.

Which, I guess, is also saying it totally COULD BE Elaine, with this one little tweak...
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 10:00:05 PM by g33k »

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #244 on: June 17, 2019, 03:59:28 AM »
His point 1 could be flawed.  There were two personalities in the Skull Kimmler's assistant who had no name, and Bob.  Harry calls out his Bob not Kimmler's assistant.
His point 2 is much more difficult, however if Justin was a disciple of Cowl's he might have known that Justin had the skull.  If he couldn't find it in the aftermath only one person could have had it.

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #245 on: June 17, 2019, 08:56:08 PM »
Cowl's he might have known [knows] that Justin had the skull [because reasons].  If he couldn't find it in the aftermath only one person could have had it.


I've never seen this point before. Interesting.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #246 on: June 17, 2019, 09:36:03 PM »
The problem with this thread is that Jim lays so many bread crumbs you could make stuffing with them.

As an example.  Listen To Wind as Cowl.  He's old enough to have been around when Kemmler was out west.  Of all the wizards he knows most about skinwalkers, and could possibly manipulate them. He has had anger issues because of how native Americans were treated and his decision to follow the Councils lead in not interfering.  As a healer his specialty ties in closely to Necromancy.  In Dead Beat native Americans make up the bulk of the spirits that we see. Plot wise he's in a position to backstab Eb, as a close friend.  And if Justin was a disciple then it connects him to Elaine.  I don't offer this as a wag, merely an example of how to make hay out of nothing.

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #247 on: June 18, 2019, 04:17:45 PM »
@Morris: When the story mechanics allow for anyone to be the "main" villain through multi-verses and time travel, including the main character, it's hard to narrow the list down.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #248 on: June 20, 2019, 06:28:35 PM »
I thought I said that.

Offline Bad Alias

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #249 on: June 20, 2019, 06:51:35 PM »
Just agreeing.

Offline morriswalters

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2547
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #250 on: June 20, 2019, 08:58:54 PM »
 :)

Offline Firestarter

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #251 on: November 11, 2019, 10:18:13 AM »
Cowl being Justin or a similar person who's somewhat familiar with Harry makes a bit of sense - He was aware of Harry but didn't know his skills in detail.

If we consider the fact that he's not actually trying to kill Harry, just throws stuff at him to "slow him down" that he expects Harry to just deflect, it makes sense.

This is why it makes no sense to me for Cowl to be anyone really close to Harry - they could outmaneuver Harry a lot more easily.

Elaine can counter Harry easily as well. So no reason for her to be pussy-footing around Harry in Dead Beat. The same for Cowl if he had been close to Harry or even alternate Harry. Even alternate versions of a person are still the person in question.

And later on Cowl apparently decides to actually try and kill Harry. No reason doing it like that; if they are close to Harry, they could simply get in and poison him or shoot him or use any other way of getting rid of the obstacle.
... hear me roar ;)

Offline Walter the skull

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #252 on: June 17, 2020, 06:22:47 PM »
I voted for Justin.  I don't think its Simon because of the following WOJ.

Q: What death curses are able to do? How powerful can they be? Why don’t more wizards just use die as their curse? Its short and kills your killer.

A: They sometimes do. :)  See what happened to all the vampires around Simon when they assaulted his compound immediately prior to the onstage events in Summer Knight.

The answer continues and talks about Harry's Mom's death curse. 

https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-magic-in-the-dresden-files-part-2/

Offline BrainFireBob

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 434
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #253 on: July 29, 2020, 03:10:50 PM »
I voted for Justin.  I don't think its Simon because of the following WOJ.

Q: What death curses are able to do? How powerful can they be? Why don’t more wizards just use die as their curse? Its short and kills your killer.

A: They sometimes do. :)  See what happened to all the vampires around Simon when they assaulted his compound immediately prior to the onstage events in Summer Knight.

The answer continues and talks about Harry's Mom's death curse. 

https://wordof.jim-butcher.com/index.php/word-of-jim-woj-compilation/woj-on-magic-in-the-dresden-files-part-2/

Posit: If a wizard has an immortal mantle, and uses a death curse at a non-conjunction point in space time, does the wizard reform after?

Offline Sattymike

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Cowl's Identity [FPOTM2 11.2016]
« Reply #254 on: June 10, 2021, 01:00:05 PM »
If Cowl is an as yet unmet individual, how strange that Ebenezer would not have some idea around who it might have been.  Can’t be too many practitioners of that strength running around unaccounted for, or ones that had demonstrated similar casting style in the past.  I would think Harry would have closely described that encounter to Ebenezer to find out if it rang any bells.  And Eb goes back a ways.