Rejuvenation items and crashing afterward

[Mr. Death]

So I decided to give my healer character a ring that can give her a pick-me-up during battle. Her Lore is 4, so I decided it would clear her mental stress track, once a session, with a crash after the scene in which it's used. I'm considering how that crash should manifest.

One option is to have her face a mental attack equal to double the number of boxes she cleared (i.e., if she used it to clear her whole track, that's an attack of 8 against her when things settle down).

Another idea might be to put the stress she cleared "back" afterward. So if, for example, she used the ring to clear her second, third and fourth stress boxes, then cast spells to fill up the first and second, when the stress comes back, she'd have a full stress track, then suffer a stress hit to box 2, either taking her out or forcing a consequence.

Another idea might be that the ring immediately up fills one of her consequence slots for its effect -- like she's rejuvenated, but suffers a Moderate mental consequence to reflect the strain on her.

Thoughts?

[Quantus]

Does she have to fill it up ahead of time?  The Bear buckle operated like a reservoir iirc, so that he had had to fill up prior to using it.  That might be more along the lines of taking stress each time she fills a slot in it, dealing with the the stress normally at that time. Then when she taps it, she can temporarily clear an equivalent amount of stress, but it all comes back next scene.  I also might impose a consequence or some kind of temporary aspect (Overconfident, Drunk on Power, etc) to cover the mental shift it imposes.  This way takes a bit more forethought but it prevents over-use and adds some situational variability to the thing so that she wont always have access to a complete negation of her entire stress track.

[Haru]

You could simply have it add 1 or 2 additional mild mental consequences, which can only be used to power spells. Once they are taken, they stay until healed and can thus be compelled or invoked against the character, representing their fatigue.

[Mr. Death]

Does she have to fill it up ahead of time?  The Bear buckle operated like a reservoir iirc, so that he had had to fill up prior to using it.  That might be more along the lines of taking stress each time she fills a slot in it, dealing with the the stress normally at that time. Then when she taps it, she can temporarily clear an equivalent amount of stress, but it all comes back next scene.

The thing about the belt buckle is it's like the force rings -- there's an in-story justification for powering it up, but mechanically it's still "one use a session." Its power is already based on her Lore, having a bunch of extra mechanical preparation doesn't seem to fit. I mean, theoretically she could have "filled" it months ago and just not tapped it yet.

I also might impose a consequence or some kind of temporary aspect (Overconfident, Drunk on Power, etc) to cover the mental shift it imposes.  This way takes a bit more forethought but it prevents over-use and adds some situational variability to the thing so that she wont always have access to a complete negation of her entire stress track.

That was one of my ideas, just having it impose a consequence. I like it better than just an aspect, because aspects are easier to clear, and there should be some kind of either lasting fatigue to it (a consequence) or immediate consequence (if done as an attack, let it take her out).

You could simply have it add 1 or 2 additional mild mental consequences, which can only be used to power spells. Once they are taken, they stay until healed and can thus be compelled or invoked against the character, representing their fatigue.

I don't think enchanted items can add consequence slots.

[Quantus]

The thing about the belt buckle is it's like the force rings -- there's an in-story justification for powering it up, but mechanically it's still "one use a session." Its power is already based on her Lore, having a bunch of extra mechanical preparation doesn't seem to fit. I mean, theoretically she could have "filled" it months ago and just not tapped it yet.

That was one of my ideas, just having it impose a consequence. I like it better than just an aspect, because aspects are easier to clear, and there should be some kind of either lasting fatigue to it (a consequence) or immediate consequence (if done as an attack, let it take her out).

Ok, Im with you.  In that case I think I'd lean towards both Options 2 and 3, let the cleared stress come back, but also impose a mild consequence as a result of putting the stress off. 

[Haru]

I don't think enchanted items can add consequence slots.

They can do whatever you need them to in order to model what they are supposed to do. You can't, technically, clear a stress track, either. By giving you additional consequences, you can limit the use to spells only and have a way to model the fatigue.

[Mr. Death]

Ok, Im with you.  In that case I think I'd lean towards both Options 2 and 3, let the cleared stress come back, but also impose a mild consequence as a result of putting the stress off.

Hm. Combining the two seems like it'd ramp up almost too fast. It would basically mean doing any magic after using the item would guarantee at least a Moderate consequence on top of the mild.

And, now that I'm thinking of it, I'm not sure how to model the overlap -- if you use it to clear four stress boxes, then use those four again, does that count as four attacks? It would basically guarantee a Taken Out if you cast more than one spell afterward.

Now I'm wondering if Option A is just a cleaner way to make the stress come back -- combine it into one attack on the caster, resisted by Discipline.

Maybe make it an either-or? Take a consequence, or face an attack?

They can do whatever you need them to in order to model what they are supposed to do. You can't, technically, clear a stress track, either. By giving you additional consequences, you can limit the use to spells only and have a way to model the fatigue.

It still has to work by the mechanical rules of Enchanted Items -- they have specific numbers of uses with durations.

Let's say my GM okays me for an enchanted item that gives me two extra consequences. What happens if I add another slot to it? Does that give me six extra consequences in total, since I added two more uses?

And the cost has to make sense. Getting two extra consequences for a specific use is a one-refresh stunt, going by the examples in the book. One enchanted slot is a quarter that cost, for the same effect; two enchanted slots would be half the stunt's cost, for triple the same effect.

Plus, consequences have always been a refresh and stats thing, distinct from the kinds of effects you could get from potions or spells.

[Haru]

It still has to work by the mechanical rules of Enchanted Items -- they have specific numbers of uses with durations.

Let's say my GM okays me for an enchanted item that gives me two extra consequences. What happens if I add another slot to it? Does that give me six extra consequences in total, since I added two more uses?

And the cost has to make sense. Getting two extra consequences for a specific use is a one-refresh stunt, going by the examples in the book. One enchanted slot is a quarter that cost, for the same effect; two enchanted slots would be half the stunt's cost, for triple the same effect.

Plus, consequences have always been a refresh and stats thing, distinct from the kinds of effects you could get from potions or spells.

Make it 1 consequence then. The point is that you get additional resources to cast a spell in exchange for you being fatigued later. You could just as well call it an aspect and let it absorb 2 shifts of casting stress but then it sticks around until you get to rest. Same thing, it's just that consequences are doing exactly that already, so you don't need to invent the wheel anew.

If it bothers you, you could always go with a sponsored magic sort of deal, make those consequences pre-compelled, so when they get compelled for fatigue, you don't get a fate point for it.

But mechanically, there is not much difference between having free mental stress boxes or additional mental consequences to absorb the casting stress. If anything, a consequence can only ever be used for 1 spell, a full stress track could be used for 4 additional spells, if all goes well. I wouldn't be too bothered with it being too powerful.

Also, I would make activating the item an action in itself. If you want to activate it 3 times, that's 3 actions that you could have probably spend doing something else. And the additional consequences would go away at the end of the scene as well, if they are not used to cast a spell. You can't just charge them up indefinitely.

[Quantus]

Hm. Combining the two seems like it'd ramp up almost too fast. It would basically mean doing any magic after using the item would guarantee at least a Moderate consequence on top of the mild.

And, now that I'm thinking of it, I'm not sure how to model the overlap -- if you use it to clear four stress boxes, then use those four again, does that count as four attacks? It would basically guarantee a Taken Out if you cast more than one spell afterward.

Now I'm wondering if Option A is just a cleaner way to make the stress come back -- combine it into one attack on the caster, resisted by Discipline.

Maybe make it an either-or? Take a consequence, or face an attack?

My fear with Option A is how well it would scale in the long run.  This is a powerful enough trick that you dont want them to be able to just shrug off the "attack."  Id want to ensure that there is some downside to using it regardless.

One way to mitigate the overlap when the stress comes back is to treat it like spell Backlash, so that she can choose to take it as either mental or physical, and thus she has the option to leave her mental stress track open for further casting, if thats a concern in a given situation. 

[Sanctaphrax]

If you want to stick more or less to the rules as written, you'll probably have to ditch the stress-track-clearing idea. Maybe create Aspects that can be tagged to cast spells without stress instead - that at least has some precedent in sponsor debt.

Setting aside the RAW, I like this option:

Another idea might be to put the stress she cleared "back" afterward. So if, for example, she used the ring to clear her second, third and fourth stress boxes, then cast spells to fill up the first and second, when the stress comes back, she'd have a full stress track, then suffer a stress hit to box 2, either taking her out or forcing a consequence.

Might be a bit problematic if it was in a book, but it sounds like a good idea for a group where nobody's gonna try any shenanigans.

[Mr. Death]

If you want to stick more or less to the rules as written, you'll probably have to ditch the stress-track-clearing idea. Maybe create Aspects that can be tagged to cast spells without stress instead - that at least has some precedent in sponsor debt.

The main problem with that is it's 3 shifts to create an aspect, so a 4-shift effect would only give one aspect to tag, which is one spell; at that point, you're better off just having an enchanted item that is, itself, a spell (though I suppose I could convert one of those shifts into an extra usage).

I've looked at how the RAW handles things like Harry's super-coffee potion and the bear belt, and they don't seem to quite match the effect demonstrated in the books; the super-coffee potion acts as Armor:1 against stress from calling up power (while retaining the 1 stress minimum) and lets you ignore fatigue consequences (they still exist, they just can't be tagged or invoked), while in the book it seemed to recharge Harry and give him extra energy he didn't have before. I don't have the Paranet Papers on me, but I think the belt was similar, in that it mainly worked by suppressing already-existing consequences, though I'll have to double check it.

Edit: Double checked, and yeah, the bear belt buckle just lets you ignore tags and compels from up to two consequences, which doesn't quite fit the rejuvenation Harry describes to me.

Setting aside the RAW, I like this option:

Might be a bit problematic if it was in a book, but it sounds like a good idea for a group where nobody's gonna try any shenanigans.

What potential potential shenanigans do you see with it?

My fear with Option A is how well it would scale in the long run.  This is a powerful enough trick that you dont want them to be able to just shrug off the "attack."  Id want to ensure that there is some downside to using it regardless.

That is a good point, it would be less dangerous for higher-level wizards.

That said, it's potentially an 8-shift attack (higher, if you're using PP's Mental Toughness powers), and I doubt many GMs will allow a Discipline score of more than 6. So almost by default, the defense is at a disadvantage, and if you're in desperate enough straits to use this, chances are you refilled most if not all of your mental stress boxes after using the item, in which case even a 1 or 2 shift hit could be a take out or consequence.

You could use a fate point to boost the Discipline roll; and if your stress track is still clear you could be okay; but if you had fate points to spend and didn't cast spells after using it, why would you use it in the first place?

One way to mitigate the overlap when the stress comes back is to treat it like spell Backlash, so that she can choose to take it as either mental or physical, and thus she has the option to leave her mental stress track open for further casting, if thats a concern in a given situation.

That could be an option, yeah. Though it could be an easy out if you haven't taken much physical stress. I feel like there needs to be, if not a certainty, then at least a reasonably high probability of ending up with a consequence or at Taken Out as a result of using this.

Haru: I'm sorry, but the consequence thing just doesn't seem to fit for me and it doesn't feel like it scales well with the enchanted item rules. Imagine the item applied to physical consequences, for instance, and a more powerful mage -- I've had some who could crank out 6-shift items with 5 uses for one enchanted slot apiece; under this scaling, that's 10 additional consequences to dole out, which is insane, even if they go away at the end of a scene. Consequences work best as a resource limited by skill points and refresh. I just don't think they're in the purview of enchanted items.

[Sanctaphrax]

What potential potential shenanigans do you see with it?

It seems like a really good item to have in a win-or-die fight that's gonna last a long time. So it could become almost ubiquitous among strong wizards in climactic fights. And that would deform stories a bit; it's not like every high-end Wizard uses something like it in the novels.

Also, people could try to exploit the fuzziness of take-out narration when succumbing to their own spells after the fight.

Nothing you'd have to worry about for your game.

[Mr. Death]

It seems like a really good item to have in a win-or-die fight that's gonna last a long time. So it could become almost ubiquitous among strong wizards in climactic fights. And that would deform stories a bit; it's not like every high-end Wizard uses something like it in the novels.

Also, people could try to exploit the fuzziness of take-out narration when succumbing to their own spells after the fight.

Nothing you'd have to worry about for your game.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I suppose any of the options depend on someone at the table playing it straight enough to actually accept long-term consequences instead of cheesing out of it by saying, "It knocks me out. Then I wake up fine."

[Nepene]

How about a shapeshifting ring? Something that stuck an aspect on her and changed her form slightly enough so that one of her skills switched with endurance, like lore. In a battle she'd have the extra stress from endurance to fill up. Then there are immediate consequences in battle from what she did.

[Mr. Death]

How about a shapeshifting ring? Something that stuck an aspect on her and changed her form slightly enough so that one of her skills switched with endurance, like lore. In a battle she'd have the extra stress from endurance to fill up. Then there are immediate consequences in battle from what she did.

That might well work, mechanically, based on the Paranet Papers' rules for shapeshifting (2 shifts of effect for every 1 refresh of power, and Beast Change -- which swaps skills -- is 1 refresh; plus consequences), but the idea behind the ring is to help her spellcasting reserves, which are on her mental track.