Reread

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I think a prisoner working at the base of the Spire and a Warriorborn citizen might be very different.  I can imagine Warriorborn earn a good living gathering expensive surface raw materials, whereas if you were put down there as a part of a prison labor detail you wouldn't fair nearly so well.

I imagine their lot in life is above that of a slave, to be sure.  But how much above, and how much they are openly accepted by the rest of the population is a different story. 

[Second Aristh]

Edit: Given the number of losses Albion took at the shipyard at Habble Landing both economically and populace wise. Aurora definitely has the upper hand. I hope Albion gains the support of Olympia. I don't think ALbion could take on both Aurora and Olympia.

There's a WoJ somewhere that Aurora is a little worse off as far as the decay of their spire life support systems go.  It's one of the reasons that they're so warlike.  Albion and Aurora may not be so outmatched post-AW after all.  Olympia could definitely sway the fight either way.

[Dina]

A few comments

Bridget and Gwen are awesome. I loved Gwen since the beginning, since I could resolve myself to pass the first line of the book (I hate that she is called Gwendolyn Margaret). I love her mom too and the fact that she (he mom) is a powerful force. And the Kaylee moment is my favorite in the book (I would have loved to see more of Grimm reaction to that).
Bridget grew more slowly on me, but she is probably my favorite now.
I still haven't forgiven Jim for not giving us the duel. I really wanted to see Bridget duelling that jerk.

I am very fond of most characters, to be honest. I just don't like Ransom.

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A few comments

Bridget and Gwen are awesome. I loved Gwen since the beginning, since I could resolve myself to pass the first line of the book (I hate that she is called Gwendolyn Margaret). I love her mom too and the fact that she (he mom) is a powerful force. And the Kaylee moment is my favorite in the book (I would have loved to see more of Grimm reaction to that).
Bridget grew more slowly on me, but she is probably my favorite now.
I still haven't forgiven Jim for not giving us the duel. I really wanted to see Bridget duelling that jerk.

I am very fond of most characters, to be honest. I just don't like Ransom.

I odnt think we're supposed to, but Im interested in her history with Grimm enough to see how she develops

[Dina]

You don't think so? I thought we were supposed to admire her. The book has such amazing women than she seems like a charicature and nothing else.

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You don't think so? I thought we were supposed to admire her. The book has such amazing women than she seems like a charicature and nothing else.

No, I think we are just supposed to mistrust her but come just short of actively hating her; she has just barely enough humanity left to not be a total villain, and the fact that Grimm married her once upon a time hints that she has /some/ redeeming qualities.   

[Second Aristh]

No, I think we are just supposed to mistrust her but come just short of actively hating her; she has just barely enough humanity left to not be a total villain, and the fact that Grimm married her once upon a time hints that she has /some/ redeeming qualities.   

Yeah, I predict her stepping into the "respected enemy" role that Jim is fond of.  An ally, but not a friend.  It's in the same vein that Marcone is to Harry or Varg is to Tavi.  At the end of the day, she's going to be against Cavendish.

[Quantus]

Yeah, I predict her stepping into the "respected enemy" role that Jim is fond of.  An ally, but not a friend.  It's in the same vein that Marcone is to Harry or Varg is to Tavi.  At the end of the day, she's going to be against Cavendish.

Im not even sure she'll reach that level.  I mean, one thing all those Respected Enemies have in common is that they are good to their word, which makes the solid foundation that the rest gets built on.  Ransom doesnt really have that right now, the main thing for her presently is that he can trust anything she says or does.  No, if I had to make a prediction on her Fate, Id say she's got redeeming self-sacrifice in her future, contributing to the emotional baggage Grimm has to carry. 

[Second Aristh]

Im not even sure she'll reach that level.  I mean, one thing all those Respected Enemies have in common is that they are good to their word, which makes the solid foundation that the rest gets built on.  Ransom doesnt really have that right now, the main thing for her presently is that he can trust anything she says or does.  No, if I had to make a prediction on her Fate, Id say she's got redeeming self-sacrifice in her future, contributing to the emotional baggage Grimm has to carry.

I remember she cheated at the airship race, but isn't that the only major thing we've seen so far?  I need to go back and do my own reread.

Grimm did something like hide the valuables when she came on board, but I don't know if I would consider that extreme enough for the reader to never be able to trust her actions.

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I remember she cheated at the airship race, but isn't that the only major thing we've seen so far?  I need to go back and do my own reread.

Grimm did something like hide the valuables when she came on board, but I don't know if I would consider that extreme enough for the reader to never be able to trust her actions.

The whole exchange implied to me that there exists a bunch of reasons why Grimm and his crew would not trust his ex-wife.  Then there was the bit about almost destroying the Predator during a sneak attack on his home nation.  Im not saying the readers wont ever get to a point where they trust her, but I suspect that there is too much baggage between them for Grimm to ever fully trust her, and that such doubt would stand in the way of her becoming a Varg or Marcone style Trusted Enemy character.  If we have to compare her to existing JB characters, she's the Elaine of the story, in my mind.  The one that you just cant be sure which side they're on. 

[Dina]

Ah, that explains it. I don'r like Elaine 
And I don't trust Ransom or Elaine.

[Second Aristh]

The whole exchange implied to me that there exists a bunch of reasons why Grimm and his crew would not trust his ex-wife.  Then there was the bit about almost destroying the Predator during a sneak attack on his home nation.  Im not saying the readers wont ever get to a point where they trust her, but I suspect that there is too much baggage between them for Grimm to ever fully trust her, and that such doubt would stand in the way of her becoming a Varg or Marcone style Trusted Enemy character.  If we have to compare her to existing JB characters, she's the Elaine of the story, in my mind.  The one that you just cant be sure which side they're on.

Yeah, Elaine is probably the best analogue for her that we have so far.  In the end, though, Elaine has come through for Harry despite him not fully trusting her.

Some of the other main characters will probably have to work with her eventually.  Grimm will complain about it, but we'll get a better sense of her without his bias.

[Quantus]

Yeah, Elaine is probably the best analogue for her that we have so far.  In the end, though, Elaine has come through for Harry despite him not fully trusting her.

And her not fully trusting him, given how things went in WN.  Im still on the fence about her, but a lot of that has to do with the lingering questions surrounding Justin's death. 

Some of the other main characters will probably have to work with her eventually.  Grimm will complain about it, but we'll get a better sense of her without his bias.

Agreed.  And in her defense, she was acting in legitimate wartime style.  Just because Grimm is ridiculously loyal to Albion doesnt mean she has any roots there or owes them any loyalty.  I have a feeling that most of what we saw from her is the mask she wears in public, playing the role of Pirate Captain, but that there's still some hidden depth under there.