block vs block

[Haru]

After all these years, I might have found a rather severe gap in the rules.

Situation was this: The players hear a bad guy approach. One of them steps forward and tries to put a block on him, hitting him with a nervestrike so he can't move (or sound an alarm).
The bad guy in return puts a grapple on this character. He's got a stunt that allows him to do so immediately, without setting up an aspect first (by having a giant crab's arm with a claw).

The problem that now occurs is this: When you establish a block (including grapples), those rolls aren't opposed. You don't defend against a block, it always gets established and if someone takes an action that could be opposed by the block, you can use the block to oppose it.

But what happens here? Does the nervestrike block the claw grapple? It feels like it should. On the other hand, you don't get a defense roll against a block or a grapple, so you can't substitute the block either.

In the situation above, the nervestrike block was established at +5. The claw grapple was established at +5.

What happens?

[blackstaff67]

A) Block against Endurance?
B) Block against Athletics?

Problem with the rules is that the player must state what his block is trying to prevent because it by nature excludes other actions the target may take.  I guess it depends on the name of the Aspect and Compel it provides.

[dragoonbuster]

A Block against a Block is legal per RAW, just uncommon. My best interpretation of the RAW, and what also happens to make the most sense to me, is you simply adjudicate the second Block roll like you would any other roll against a Block that properly covered the attempted action.

So in this case, the second roll--the bad guy--rolled and met the value of the Block against him. The player's Block breaks (ouch, always a bummer on those ties). The Crab-Man has the player in a grapple @ 5. Continue via initiative.

[Sanctaphrax]

Blocks can block things that aren't defended against. That's why you can block movement.

Anyway, if the grapple matched the block strength then it's successful. As it says on page 210..."If he meets or exceeds the block strength, the action resolves normally..."

The player's Block breaks (ouch, always a bummer on those ties).

Nonmagical blocks don't break when overcome.

[dragoonbuster]

Nonmagical blocks don't break when overcome.

...I can't believe I've been doing that wrong for so long.

[Sanctaphrax]

It's a surprisingly common mistake, probably because it doesn't come up much. Nonmagical blocks only last one round anyway, so whether they break when beaten rarely affects anything.

[Taran]

For mundane blocks I go with 'if it makes sense for it to go away'.

But a guy guarding a door by swinging his sword (weapons vs movement) might let one person get through (the first person sprints higher than the block), but not the second person (who rolled a crappy sprint roll).

For a block vs block, I'd just say if the main action overcomes the bock, that main action(if it's a block action) is at full strength. 

That said, that works a bit differently to blocking attacks.  Blocking an attack reduces the success of an attack. 

Attack 5 (main action)vs block 4 (block action) means one shift of success. 

You could argue that
Block 5 (main action)vs block 4(blocking action) would reduce the main block to 1 shift. 

Although 'reduce' is not a good word.  It only allows 1 shift to get through.

Thoughts on that?

Edit: which works differently with how maneuvers work.  Which is also bast on straight success/failure (with the exception of fragile aspects). 

So, probably the full block should succeed.

[Haru]

Maybe there is a part missing in this that makes this make more sense. The differentiation between a defensive and an offensive block. A defensive block would not be opposed, it's still a preemptive defense roll. An offensive block would not work like that, but would rather need to be looked at like a maneuver. As such, I would try to put the aspect "blocked" on an opponent, he would get to roll to defend against that, and if he is successful, nothing happens. Otherwise, the aspect is there and functions as a block as usual.

At the same time, I think Taran's solution of having it stick in full or not at all makes the most sense as well. Otherwise you kind of get to roll the block down, which would make it pretty much useless.

[Mr. Death]

I'd have done the nerve strike as a maneuver, that you'd then tag to keep the person immobile, or to prevent their actions. Makes much more sense to me that way.

I mean, I get that you're trying to prevent action, but it's less a block (as if you were physically holding them back) and more of a maneuver (you do a single action that creates a status/aspect on the character).