Dealing with Supernatural Speed/Strength

[Theogony_IX]

You want to let your players do the things that they think are cool, so I don't think you did anything wrong with how you adjudicated the destruction of the jeep.  (As an aside, I agree that there should have been some equal and opposite force applied to the character though.  I may have had them take stress equal to their roll, the strength bonus not included.)  I think you could have salvaged the scene by not having everyone inside the jeep taken out though.  The cool thing about being the GM is that you can adjust things on the fly if it will make the scene more fun.  That includes changing powers and skill levels if the scene is not working out in an enjoyable way, or even swapping in different NPCs if they haven't been revealed yet.

In Fool Moon, Harry flips a van filled with the Street Wolves gang.  Now Jim Butcher could have put anyone in that van, a mortal, a god, or the Street Wolves, but the most interesting thing to put inside was the Street Wolves because they could survive the crash and present Harry with a possibly beatable, follow-up challenge.  Jim says that the most interesting answer to the question of whether or not your protagonist will succeed is either "Yes, but . . ." or "No, and furthermore . . .".  Yes is boring, hence why you're here, and no is frustrating if overdone.  So in your case, the answer should have been . . .

"Yes, you destroy the jeep, but you've taken a consequence from slamming your body into a jeep hard enough to knock it off the road, and the attackers inside survive to come an attack you."

Or

"Yes, you destroy the jeep, but inside was the son/daughter of a person that is scary and now really mad at your for hurting his/her progeny."

TLDR; I think you did fine, just work on your creative improvisation to make the outcome either a "Yes, you succeed, but . . ." or "No, you fail, and furthermore . . ."

[Taran]

@theogony:

awesome advice.  *taking notes*


O.k...now, I've been thinking about it some more.  I think a neat way to deal with a scenario like this would be to try the Consequential Test rules on page 193.

PC roles Might to set the DC: 10

NPC roles drive + a modifier for the quality of the jeep.  You decide how many consequences the jeep gets.  Since it's military grade, maybe give it a mild.

If he ties or overcomes the DC, the attack on the jeep fails,
If he fails by 1 or 2 shifts, the jeep takes a minor consequence but the jeep is still going
If he fails by more than 2, the jeep goes in the ditch.
for every two, four, six shifts over that, becomes consequences for those inside the jeep.

So if the driver rolls really poorly, people inside the car get hurt because he's rolled the vehicle or hit a concrete medium, etc...

In fact, if the PC loses, he could take consequences, depending on how badly he loses, since he literally threw himself at a moving car.

[Shaft]

I am curious to know what is this character's high concept?  If he is a Red Court Infected Or White Court with leftover free will and he has Feeding Dependency, that is 8 points that could potentially result in hunger.

Also, does the character possess any level of Toughness.  He might have Supernatural Strength, but if he doesn't have any Toughness, if he does something like punch through a brick wall, that could break his fists.  Heck, even punching a normal person in the face with normal strength can result in fractured finger bones, so Supernatural Strength makes this risk higher- you could compel this.  If the character uses a weapon to offset this risk, there is a chance that the weapon itself breaks, within reason.  This could also be a compel.

I would make it that exiting the vehicle counts as moving one zone, and closing within HtH range of the other vehicle is moving another zone, but there is more than just movement that was needed in this case: did the character have to remove his seatbealt, or did he just burst out of it?  Did he open his vehicle's door, or just tear through it or a window? Could this have caused damage to him if he didn't have Tougness?  Did he have to draw a weapon?  Was he driving the vehicle? Did he have time to bring the vehicle he was driving to a halt?  The vehicle he is in doesn't brake at Superhuman Speed, so there may be some velocity issues if he leaps from a moving vehicle, the way Harry Dresden did in Fool Moon.

The character is not immune to attack, but he has a standing +2 added to his Athletics?  If the character maxed out at Superb, this gives him a defense roll of +7.  The thugs with guns can team up to give each other bonuses, if they roll for maneuvers or if you give them a stunt that automatically let them do team attacks (example, if you have 4 thugs with a Good Gun skill and a teamwork stunt that lets them work as a unit, you can decide that instead of the foursome making four attacks at +3, they combine to only make 2 attacks at +5 or possibly even one attack at +7. 

You could also make the sorcerer makes attacks against his discipline or alertness (veils or psychic attacks), do area effect attacks on the area the character is in as opposed to the character himself, or affect the environment with a spell that hampers the character and gives bonuses to the thugs above.

[Mr. Death]

The character is not immune to attack, but he has a standing +2 added to his Athletics?  If the character maxed out at Superb, this gives him a defense roll of +7.  The thugs with guns can team up to give each other bonuses, if they roll for maneuvers or if you give them a stunt that automatically let them do team attacks (example, if you have 4 thugs with a Good Gun skill and a teamwork stunt that lets them work as a unit, you can decide that instead of the foursome making four attacks at +3, they combine to only make 2 attacks at +5 or possibly even one attack at +7. 

Even better -- have Goons 1-3 all roll support maneuvers, creating aspects ("Support Fire," "Hail of Bullets," "Air Filled With Lead"), then have Goon 4 tag all three of those aspects and roll his attack from a whopping 9.

[Sanctaphrax]

Assuming the first three goons succeed, of course.

Anyway, it sounds like your problem is partly that you're giving the PC bonuses not normally provided by their Powers (like negating defense rolls) because they seem to make sense. That's not usually a good idea. Let them invoke Aspects if they want extra effects like that.

PS: Usain Bolt has run at 27.8 mph. Given that, I'd definitely let someone with Supernatural Speed and high Athletics run at 50 mph.
PPS: If you're curious about the scene Taran was talking about earlier, you can see it here.

[Taran]

PS: Usain Bolt has run at 27.8 mph. Given that, I'd definitely let someone with Supernatural Speed and high Athletics run at 50 mph.

Yes, but they have to dedicate their entire action sprinting. Bolt wasn't trying to drop kick people when he ran that fast.

[Theogony_IX]

So a Fantastic +6 is skirting the boundaries of natural human capacity (YS310).  So that would make running 30 mph an Athletics roll of +6.  The average running speed is 15 mph, making that an Average +1.  You could develop a set of difficulties around that.

[blackstaff67]

Assuming the first three goons succeed, of course.

Anyway, it sounds like your problem is partly that you're giving the PC bonuses not normally provided by their Powers (like negating defense rolls) because they seem to make sense. That's not usually a good idea. Let them invoke Aspects if they want extra effects like that.

PS: Usain Bolt has run at 27.8 mph. Given that, I'd definitely let someone with Supernatural Speed and high Athletics run at 50 mph.
PPS: If you're curious about the scene Taran was talking about earlier, you can see it here.

Ordinarily I might quibble a bit, but given the speed of skinwalkers in many stories that keep pace with automobiles until they reach the higher speeds, I'm willing to concede the point...and then brutally use it in my own game.

[dragoonbuster]

Ordinarily I might quibble a bit, but given the speed of skinwalkers in many stories that keep pace with automobiles until they reach the higher speeds, I'm willing to concede the point...and then brutally use it in my own game.

One difference being that Skinwalkers have Mythic Speed vs Supernatural.

[Taran]

And, even with Mythic Speed, keeping up with a car is a sprint action.  So, in most situation, if a character is trying to keep up with a car, that's all they can do.

[blackstaff67]

And, even with Mythic Speed, keeping up with a car is a sprint action.  So, in most situation, if a character is trying to keep up with a car, that's all they can do.

Hence the close calls and escapes that tell us about them.

[Shaft]

BTW, if you're looking for a good reference for the capabilities of  a character with Supernatural Strength and Speed, Kincaid and Thomas Raith are at those levels.

[Hogeyhead]

Everyone has given great advice, so I won't go into specifics, but I will give a general piece of advice: Don't expect PC's to roll 5-6 in their specialty. They won't if it important, they have resources, they will use them. Fate points and aspects are easy to come by, and being able to fate points in your specialty is generally a given (as in you have aspects that are usable on your sheet, not that you always have fate points). Rolling 10 is relatively easy as long as you are willing to spend resources, expect tens and higher every once in a while when you are planing. Do not require them, but don't let a single ten break the session as they pretty much will happen.

[RonLugge]

Everyone has given great advice, so I won't go into specifics, but I will give a general piece of advice: Don't expect PC's to roll 5-6 in their specialty. They won't if it important, they have resources, they will use them. Fate points and aspects are easy to come by, and being able to fate points in your specialty is generally a given (as in you have aspects that are usable on your sheet, not that you always have fate points). Rolling 10 is relatively easy as long as you are willing to spend resources, expect tens and higher every once in a while when you are planing. Do not require them, but don't let a single ten break the session as they pretty much will happen.

Suddenly I'm reminded of the George Straight song 'Write this Down'.  I can't come up with a good parody at this point, but...

Ooh, better yet, Mother of demons.

Make a note.  Underline it.  Underline it twice.  Better yet, cast it in bronze, chisel it in stone.  Remember this.

[Mr. Death]

Yeah, I had a game once where the party bruiser was rolling from 14 with alarming regularity.

That group really took to the whole teamwork and maneuvering thing. It was pretty spectacular.