Current DR wardens

[MoroccoMole]

So I was reading GroinKick's thread on previous wardens ( http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,47345.0.html ) and remembered this from Cold Days:

“Hey, how come you called me Warden?” I asked. “I mean, I’ve been a Warden, but there are a lot of other guys who are better at it than me. I’m not exactly the poster child.” “WARDEN,” Demonreach said. “NOW THERE ARE MANY. FIRST THERE WAS ONE.”

Who are these people?!  Don't they care that there's a noob on the island? 

Why doesn't Harry ask who they are?  He's creating a sanctuary for himself, shouldn't he care about who has keys to it?  He doesn't mention anything about it in Skin Game in his, "After the year I've had here, I could stop that Outsider incursion of last year before my morning coffee" bit. 


If Eb, the GateKeeper, and Listens all know about this, and i think they do because they all kind of react the same way, then i think it's possible that they could be wardens and were letting the Noob do a trial by fire with the whole Outsiders' incursion.  Risky & frightening, but a true test of a warden.  Or, and this to me is even scarier, Eb, the GateKeeper and Listens aren't wardens and just know about the nature of the island.  Then if there are other wardens besides Harry, they either don't care about their responibilities, or have grown so much that they think that DR and the inherent risks are beneath their concern.

~M

[groinkick]

Hey could you say where DR says that?  I don't remember it.  The first thought that jumped into my mind is that Alfred doesn't really know what death is, and so there could be a lot of Wardens who have died, but to Alfred they are still Wardens.  On the other hand maybe there are other Wardens walking around.  Good topic to go over.

[ClintACK]

I thought he meant that the term "Warden" used to refer to the White Council police force is a nod to the position of DR's Warden.  That once upon a time DR's Warden was the head of the White Council's police force.  Or something like that.  But DR was always something of a secret, so people didn't realize that.  And the origin of "the Wardens" was lost to the memory of all but a few senior wizards... and DR itself.

At the time, I remember speculating that Harry's role as DR's Warden comes with some official status and/or responsibilities in the White Council (something adjunct like the Blackstaff, and similarly not something most wizards know about) -- something that could come up during Peace Talks, perhaps, and make Harry's life more complicated.

[MoroccoMole]

Page 154 on my kindle version. It's right as Harry is finishing his first descent into the well with Bob.

[Second Aristh]

Yeah, Demonreach is referring to the wardens as the White Council's police force.  There's a WoJ floating around that it isn't a coincidence that the warden cloaks are grey and match Alfred's.

[Phariah]

it does not mean there are multiple "Warden" around. there is one Warden, many warden. probably started out with the Warden and when population grew many were sworn in as deputies. they have WCouncil authority but that means nothing to DR. what I would like to know is who was the last Warden and how long ago that was.

[MoroccoMole]

Chapter 17 of Cold Days begins like this:

“I don’t guess this job pays anything, does it?” I asked. The spirit just regarded me. “Didn’t think so,” I said. “So . . . when you call me Warden, you’re speaking literally.” “INDEED.”

Baring seeing the WOJ that Second Aristh is talking about, ( Any help here Serack? ) I have to stick to my guns and say there are multiple wardens and Harry is just one of them. Harry had to stand tall in front of DR and bloody his nose to invoke the site as a sanctum.  I can't see some Joe Blow warden just getting "sworn in" to the job. 

Also, given all the theories about the origin of the well, such as angelic grace being needed to create this prison, why do the wardens have to be human?  By the description of what's in there, in my opinion, some of the things would surpass a even the most powerful mortal's abilities. So maybe the question is not who are the other wardens? But WHAT are the other wardens that they could imprison these crazy badass entities?

~M

[Snark Knight]

I thought he meant that the term "Warden" used to refer to the White Council police force is a nod to the position of DR's Warden.

That was strongly my interpretation.

Some people might question how the spirit is aware of something off the island like the Council's military force, but I don't find it unreasonable that the information flow through which Harry accesses the island's intellectus might be two-way (i.e. Alfred can access Harry's knowledge of the outside world).

[Snark Knight]

There's a WoJ floating around that it isn't a coincidence that the warden cloaks are grey and match Alfred's.

Wait, what? His cloak is described as dark green in the end of GS, or just dark in most other appearances. I think Harry would have mentioned if it matched the Warden issue ones.

[Phariah]

there is one warden for the prison and he runs it. DR is a prison and Harry is the Warden, he runs it. it is his island. he has spent a lot of time there w/ DR, if there were more wouldn't DR have told him during his training as warden there recently? with this prison you do not want a lot of people knowing the codes to the gates. so one Warden is the best protection.

there is one Merlin
there is one Blackstaff
there is one Gatekeeper
there is one Warden of DR

Warden was created before the Council I would say since DR predates the Council. he is the Warden and overlooks the prison. the Council comes into being and creates a police force similar and names the Wardens to either aid him or work similarly policing mankind for warlocks.

in CD DR says this to Harry. "you are the Warden." The Warden not A Warden. if there were others he would not be singled out. there is one Warden for a prison. he runs it. DR calls itself the guard and walls. when DR talks about the Well and what can be done concerning it. "not without outside intervention, or your authorization." nothing about anyone else's authority.

SG
Harry again. "..A Wizard of the White Council and The Warden of Demonreach." note the singular the again as Warden not A like when calling himself a Wizard. again talking about DR's defenses. "...defenses that could only be activated by The Warden."  again the warden not a warden.

nothing at all hints to multiple warden of DR. everything does hint/ point to there only being one Warden.

[bigdangmoose]

I dont know where it is, but I remember hearing JB say that the Wouncil Wardens are based on the Warden of DR. That is what Alfred was referring to, that there are multiple wizards running around with the title Warden in the Wouncil but it all stemmed from the Warden of DR.

Another way to think if there is more than one is if there were, why isn't there one there at all times to defend it. It is one of the biggest sources of dark energy in North America, home of the biggest, baddest beings known and unknown. And if there were, who would be senior. No, there is just one. It's too big a power to be left in multiple hands. It's like the Blackstaff, it's a power bestowed on someone the Wouncil deems worthy. Unfortunately for them, they never found someone worthy. And unfortunately for the Wouncil and Harry is that now Harry is The Warden.

[kazimmoinuddin]

I want to know where the original warden cloak and sword are located. The cloaks and sword are based on this guy, so I wonder what the originals are like. I don't think they would be epic artifacts but useful none the less. Seeing as I doubt he would be getting a sword anytime soon. If Harry can enchant his coat, then wardens would definitely enchant their cloaks.

[Griffyn612]

Warden was created before the Council I would say since DR predates the Council. he is the Warden and overlooks the prison. the Council comes into being and creates a police force similar and names the Wardens to either aid him or work similarly policing mankind for warlocks.

With Merlin creating Demonreach in multiple times, it could be that Demonreach existed centuries before Merlin's relocation of the White Council.  But remember that the White Council moved to Edinburgh from Rome.  It's older than Merlin and his organizational changes.  We don't know when the White Council was created.

[kazimmoinuddin]

There was originally one wArden, hen there were many. I am wondering if the additional grey cloaks were supposed to support and aid the duties of the main warden. I wonder if this might lead to Harry leading his own gang.

[Bergi]

I think the original warden sword was Amoracchius since Merlin is supposed to have had his hands on it. To the cloak I don't have a clue. Maybe it was not a literal cloak, but a mantle?