Hexen"whatever"

[SirJackers]

So in Fool Moon Bob explains that the Hexenwulf is a bound spirit (i think he says spirit of rage) that transforms your body and pilots it for you.

I feel there's some potential with this that we could explore.

What about a Hexenraven that's a spirit of cunning, or a Hexenbear that's a spirit of sloth, a Hexenboar that's gluttony?

Ideas?

[Theogony_IX]

I'd probably make the bear a spirit of rage just channeled in a different way. Bears are seriously dangerous, scary animals.  In fact, I think it comes down to what you want to do with it. Big cats and boars and scary and dangerous too, so a spirit of rage could fit them as well.

I like the idea of a spirit of cunning though.  Ravens, coyotes, and snakes among others would be good candidates for a spirit of cunning.

Snakes and chameleons, and maybe scorpions might make good for spirits of treachery.

Gluttony and sloth seem less useful for proactive characters, but I could be wrong.  For me, it comes down to fitting form to function. What do I want to do, then find the spirit and then pick the form.

[SirJackers]

Spirit of Treachery is an awesome idea.

I could see the Spirt of sloth not wanting to do anything so you have to force the change to make it defend itself.

[dragoonbuster]

Bears...not especially "rage-y" or "sloth-y" animals. Other than zoo-bears, they're really not lazy, and in fact are pretty fast animals in an all-out run. I would say bears fit better with Spirits of Protection, as that's their most common metaphysical link, historically, as I understand it. Even Grizzly bears usually only attack people over territory or perceived threats. As far as boars and big cats, they make a much better rage-spirit link than a bear IMO.

Chameleons, I feel it necessary to remind everyone, do not camouflage themselves with their color-changing abilities. They do for many reasons...but not to hide.

Any Spirit-of-Sloth sounds...frustrating and annoying to play, personally. Maybe not for other players.

[Haru]

I feel like part of the Hexen-anything deal that makes them different from regular were-anythings is that the spirit inside is kind of bad news. As such, I would always go with a spirit that represents the bad side of the dimension you want to portrait. So it wouldn't be a spirit of protection, but a spirit of... whatever a good word for territorial possession and the like would be. Not a spirit of cunning but a spirit of treachery, of trickery, of greed. That would, at least in my eyes, fit the Hexen-anything theme far better.

[dragoonbuster]

I feel like part of the Hexen-anything deal that makes them different from regular were-anythings is that the spirit inside is kind of bad news. As such, I would always go with a spirit that represents the bad side of the dimension you want to portrait. So it wouldn't be a spirit of protection, but a spirit of... whatever a good word for territorial possession and the like would be. Not a spirit of cunning but a spirit of treachery, of trickery, of greed. That would, at least in my eyes, fit the Hexen-anything theme far better.

Well, that's certainly a major part of it. Personally, I'd allow the option of a "good" spirit being brought into the deal, if the backstory works. The hexen belts are dangerous because of the influencing spirit, but maybe they don't *have* to be. "Good" versions would be considerably rarer, as I imagine you'd need a really enticing reason for a spirit to do that. The "evil" ones just like inflicting pain and whatnot, so it's just a whole lot easier to convince the spirit to work with the belt-holder.

But...if you were looking for a 'tainted' version of a Spirit of Protection...maybe...Greed or Envy? Sort of a 'jealous guarding' of whatever the wielder considers "his," be it inanimate objects, people/animals, territory, etc.

[Lonelylurker]

If the bearlike quality most important was the ability to hibernate then a spirit of sloth sounds great. You just might have trouble waking up when you wanted too.

Not something PCs are likely to do, but some NPCs could have interesting reasons for it.

[Lawgiver]

I feel like part of the Hexen-anything deal that makes them different from regular were-anythings is that the spirit inside is kind of bad news. As such, I would always go with a spirit that represents the bad side of the dimension you want to portrait. So it wouldn't be a spirit of protection, but a spirit of... whatever a good word for territorial possession and the like would be. Not a spirit of cunning but a spirit of treachery, of trickery, of greed. That would, at least in my eyes, fit the Hexen-anything theme far better.

I pretty much agree here.  The actual form taken from the belt (or whatever artifact is used, from a wristwatch to a pair of Prada shoes) is far less important than the negative aspects of the spirit embedded within.  As long as it's strongly negative I see no real issue, just make sure the item is concealable in some way (the belts were worn under a jacket/shirt, etc.) or innocuous enough in appearance that it isn't taken for what it is without some ability to detect/investigate it (say, an Assessment?)

[Taran]

good= Spirit of Protection
bad= Spirit of Jealousy / Possessiveness / Envy

[SirJackers]

I don't see the need for the spirit to have to be malicious. Spirit of protection, or courage, or justice would be cool concepts for a "demonic" co-pilot, they still have agendas that could get you in trouble. The protection spirit might defend a bad guy, or show mercy when there shouldn't be. The courage one could make you a thrill seeker, which is rife for plot hooks. And justice is easily corrupted to vengeance...

[Haru]

@SirJackers
Positive spirits can be a cool concept, no question, but I think they would fit better as a free/symbiotic relationship rather than what we see with the Hexenwulfs. The spirit inside the belt is mangling the person's brain over time, slowly driving them mad. It's bound by a sorcerer, and they like to go the easy route. The dark side is always willing to help. For a price.

[SirJackers]

I agree, it wouldn't be a hexenwulf per se. But mechanically it would function the same way. I'm imagining giving in to the mother bear spirit and letting it run around in your body being a super bear or something. Kind of like a benevolent denarian?

[Lavecki121]

@Haru, I have to disagree with what you said slightly. I don't believe it was the spirit per se that was mangling their brains, more so it was the fact that they were being shape-changed into something more instinctual. Modifying the brain itself into being more like that of a wolf every time they changed caused a lasting effect when they changed back. Not that the spirit had nothing to do with it, but Bob mentions the same thing would happen if a sorcerer were to forcibly change himself or someone else into a non human animal.

[g33k]

So, let's look at reskinning the "Hexen..." as "Blessed..." (not necessarily by Michael Carpenter's boss... but by an entity that is more-or-less benevolent).

Maybe someone Shamanic produced a "Quester's Mask" -- a ceremonial dance-mask in the form of an eagle, raven, etc; with an associated spirit.  It drives you to complete some great quest, a fundamentally "good" quest, but at some personal risk (you may end up with the fierce Eagle territoriality, with the acquisitiveness of Raven, or whatever).  Ultimately at risk is you becoming a magical entity, a servant (a zero/negative Refresh NPC, in DFRPG terms) of the Great Spirit involved.  We can also borrow from the "Lawbreaker" mechanism -- you've "bought" (with Refresh) some abilities that have taken you to NPCland.

Maybe some wiccan sort, with the "GreenMan" image in mind & a few too many viewings of LOTR movies thought "Ya know... I think I can MAKE an Ent, to protect that endangered old-growth forest..."

Etc.

Fundamentally, I think, you're looking at magic that *must* place the character at-risk of NPC-hood (from the POV of DFRPG and the Dresdenverse in general).  They may exit PC'dom by becoming a good spirit in the service of a Great Spirit (instead of an evil Hexen-something-awful), but if they keep using the item their humanity & free-will eventually get lost in the power.