Author Topic: Help! New to Fate and so confused.  (Read 3411 times)

Offline Tassyr

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« on: October 26, 2015, 01:41:03 AM »
So I grabbed the RPG and tossed it at a friend, hoping to get a game going. We spent tonight sitting there, staring at the book, getting more and more confused.
We've never used Fate. We've used a lot of D20 systems, but never Fate.

We're so freaking confused. We don't understand how stress works, we don't understand many of the mechanics- is there a 'here's how things work' sheet that's very cut and dried somewhere? We want to play, my friend admits that the system looks great- but we keep getting confused...

Offline Sanctaphrax

  • White Council
  • Seriously?
  • ****
  • Posts: 12405
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2015, 02:38:29 AM »
If you're having trouble with stress and conflicts, the examples on the wiki might prove helpful.

There are also some rules summaries in the Play Aids section of the wiki's Downloads page, which are at least worth a look.

For a more comprehensive introduction, I've heard good things about Rick Neal. I'm not super impressed with what I've seen of his writing myself, but maybe it'll work for you.

A poke through the play by post forum here might be enlightening as well.

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2015, 09:43:02 AM »
The system can be a bit confusing. Took me a while as well. But it is worth it. It's also a system that's quite esoteric in theory, but everything falls into place once you see it in action.

The examples Sanctaphrax linked are a good place to start with that, they should help clear up a few of your confusions. If you still have questions after that, or additional questions come up, just ask and we can clarify, but that's easier with specific questions.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline Tirs

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2015, 06:28:50 PM »
If I may, I will ask here.
Living Dead [–1] give to character the
Quote
Death is a Nuisance. Unless wholly destroyed or killed by special means, you’re already
dead, and that doesn’t seem to have fazed you much. No “death” result is ever permanent unless special means are used (usually as determined by your creature type).
So, why will be if someone completely marks off all the stress boxes?
 
RPG of my dreams: vampires from True Blood, mages from Dresden files, werewolves from Mercy Thompson and fairy from... Hm,I shall think.

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2015, 07:07:40 PM »
The idea behind that power is that the character just can't die unless there are special circumstances. So if you take out a thug with a gun roll, you can (can, not must) declare that the taken out result is that he is dead. You can also declare something else, you got him in the knee and he's given up, he's unconscious and losing a lot of blood, and so forth.

When a character has this power, it limits the things you can declare. So you can take out a black court vampire with a gunshot, but it will not kill him. He may still be incapacitated, forced to flee, etc., but "death" as a result is not an option.

That doesn't have anything to do with stress boxes either. You can take someone out if they marked off all their stress boxes or you can take them out if they have their stress track completely clear. It's just a matter of what the taken out result can and can't be.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline Tirs

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2015, 07:40:26 PM »
The idea behind that power is that the character just can't die unless there are special circumstances. So if you take out a thug with a gun roll, you can (can, not must) declare that the taken out result is that he is dead. You can also declare something else, you got him in the knee and he's given up, he's unconscious and losing a lot of blood, and so forth.

When a character has this power, it limits the things you can declare. So you can take out a black court vampire with a gunshot, but it will not kill him. He may still be incapacitated, forced to flee, etc., but "death" as a result is not an option.

That doesn't have anything to do with stress boxes either. You can take someone out if they marked off all their stress boxes or you can take them out if they have their stress track completely clear. It's just a matter of what the taken out result can and can't be.
Thanks. And the next question: as we know Black Court Vampires have all Bream Stoker-style weaknesses - including beheading. So, if character strong enough to completely fill the stress-boxes of BCV, can he declare that he tear vamp's head apart?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 07:42:53 PM by Tirs »
RPG of my dreams: vampires from True Blood, mages from Dresden files, werewolves from Mercy Thompson and fairy from... Hm,I shall think.

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2015, 08:03:30 PM »
That makes me wonder if the weakness is "losing their head" or "beheading". The tool might play a vital role in this.

Regardless of that, that would be covered under
Quote
unless special means are used (usually as determined by your creature type)

So if you and your table agree that you should be able to rip off the vampires head, and ripping off the vampires head kills it permanently, that's what happens.

But again, that doesn't rally have something to do with stress boxes but with narrative permission. If you've got a strength power, it would make sense that you can do this. If the vampire has a matching toughness power, it might become debatable again. If you're attacking with an ax and that's the taken out result, it makes sense that you might be striking the neck and chopping off the head. It would certainly be a cool action.

But even if that action doesn't justify that, if your taken out result is to incapacitate the vampire, that's it, he's incapacitated, he can't move. He might do so again in a little while, but you can just as well say that you are getting the ax from the car and chop off his head while he is out. As long as things make sense, go for them.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline Tirs

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2015, 10:20:11 AM »
Oh-kay.
An example - my character tears off vampire's feet (for example, it's a consequence of losing all stress-dots). Can it mean, could that vampire considering as take out?
Other question: if character is NPC can I ignore the skill progression (1 Skill 5, 2 Skills 4 etc)?
RPG of my dreams: vampires from True Blood, mages from Dresden files, werewolves from Mercy Thompson and fairy from... Hm,I shall think.

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2015, 11:19:14 AM »
Hmm, I feel like we need to go over what counts as taken out first.

A character is taken out of a conflict, when they have to take stress that they can not fit on their stress track and can't or won't absorb any other way.

So for example, we've got your vampire with a stress track of OOO (OO), which means he's got inhuman toughness. Now let's look at a few scenarios.

1) You attack him with a fists roll of +6, he only rolls a +3 on his athletics, even taking into account any speed powers. Say you're a werewolf with inhuman strength and claws, that means you inflict 3+2+2=7 shifts of stress. That gets reduces to 6 shifts because he has armor:1 from inhuman toughness. His stress track is only 5 boxes long, so if he doesn't do anything, he's taken out.
1a) One option would be to spend a fate point to increase his defense roll by +2. That would bring the attack down to 4 shifts and he would mark his stress track like so: OOO (XO). He would not be taken out.
1b) He could also take a consequence. If he does, the attack gets reduced by a number of shifts depending on the consequence he takes. A mild consequence is worth 2 shifts, a moderate 4 and a severe 6 shifts. So he could take a mild consequence and call it "scratched up" and get the same result as above. A moderate consequence is worse than a mild, and it could be "severed feet", which would lead to a stress track like: OXO (OO) + moderate ("severed feet"). Usually, severed feet would probably be a severe consequence, but on a vampire, it's probably less severe.
You can find the description of what the consequences should roughly be in the book.

2) Now lets look at the same attack with the werewolf being doused in holy water before, so he satisfies the catch. He can't use the stress boxes in brackets anymore, and his armor goes away as well. That means we are dealing with a 7 shift hit on a OOO stress track.
2a) A fate point won't be enough now. He'll need to spend a fate point plus a mild consequence to stay in the game.
2b) Or alternately, he could take at least a moderate consequence as above and stay in the game. But again, a mild alone won't cut it.

3) Filled stress boxes. Now in the course of the fight, the vampire has already taken a few hits. His stress track looks like this: XOX (XX), and he has to take a 3 shift hit. Now 3 shifts isn't all that much, but his 3rd stress box is full, so it rolls up to the next free stress box. In this case, there is no free stress box larger than 3, so this hit would take him out. If he still has consequences left he could reduce the attack to a 1 shift attack, which would roll up to the 2nd stress box, but he would stay in the conflict a while longer.

Only if a character can no longer soak up all the stress he takes, whichever way he does is irrelevant, he is taken out of the fight. So it can happen that a character has a full stress track and the next 1 shift hit takes them out. But it can also be that they take an 8 shift hit and still stand.

So the amount of stress in one attack doesn't automatically have anything to do with taking out a character. But if you inflict that final blow, you are allowed to say what happens with the character that has been taken out, as long as it is withing reason. So kicking someone and turning him into a pile of money is probably not possible. Kicking their head off? Might be a bit over the top but this is basically a fancy way of declaring him dead, so it's all good. You've got full control over what happens with the taken out character. Other players can make suggestions, of course, but you can decide what happens.

Also, keep in mind that consequences are named by the party that takes them, not the party that inflicts them. So while "severed feet" might be a good consequence, the player (or GM, if the vampire is an NPC) might choose to name the consequence differently. Though you can still make a suggestion, of course, but the final judgment is with the player who takes the consequence.


Other question: if character is NPC can I ignore the skill progression (1 Skill 5, 2 Skills 4 etc)?
It's not so much a progression as it is just sorted in columns. Generally though, I don't bother with the columns on most NPCs. I just decide how good they are in some key skills and the rest defaults to +0. Or another value, if I decide they are better than that. Could be that they get multiple +5 skills and no other skills as well. I just build them how I see fit. The skill columns are mainly there to balance PCs.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal

Offline Tirs

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2015, 09:35:14 PM »
Thank's. And one more question. For example, character can shapeshift, and he have a few forms, which give him Powers. Some Powers are similar for both forms, while some aren't. E.g. one form give you Inhuman speed and Toughness, and another - Inhuman speed and Claws. Speaking of refresh, you should "buy" the Speed twice for every form, or this powers considering as one, if they have the same nature and are affected by same requirement? In short, I should spend 2 points of refresh or 4?
RPG of my dreams: vampires from True Blood, mages from Dresden files, werewolves from Mercy Thompson and fairy from... Hm,I shall think.

Offline Haru

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5520
  • Mentally unstable like a fox.
    • View Profile
Re: Help! New to Fate and so confused.
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2015, 09:40:50 PM »
You only ever have to buy any power once. And in your case, you probably want "Modular Abilities" in any case.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?”
― Terry Pratchett, Going Postal