Author Topic: Sponsored Magic Debt  (Read 2764 times)

Offline Darkstand

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Sponsored Magic Debt
« on: October 05, 2015, 06:50:08 PM »
So, In a game that is currently experiencing some growing pains, I am statting up a character with infernal heritage. As a result, I was planning on taking on sponsored Magic (hellfire)... but I got really confused about Sponsored Magic, especially what does and does not incur debt... and the party is split on the proper interpretation.

Does everything 'sponsored' incur debt, or only if specifically listed? If I wanted to be able to throw fireballs around without incurring debt, would I need to take channeling (fire) as well, or is that already in the package for hellfire (albeit with the impact of infernally affected consequences)?
This is on top of the issues about the sponsor needing to approve of the use of magic, yes? In the case of Hellfire without a specific demon in the picture, this could be nearly anything violent, no?
(Perhaps a good homebrew rule might be that you could take a point of debt to use magic when the sponsor would otherwise be neutral to the situation?)

Offline dragoonbuster

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Re: Sponsored Magic Debt
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2015, 06:59:40 PM »
When you have Sponsored Magic, spells you cast with that magic must fall within the Sponsor's agenda; that limitation is why you get an extra 1.5-2 refresh of goodies with Sponsored Magic over taking Ritual + Channeling. For Hellfire, that agenda is specifically listed as "causing pain." Hellfire likes to cause suffering.

You have the option to take Sponsored Debt, when you want to and when the Sponsor 'approves,' to supercharge your spells. Sponsored Debt is effectively a mechanic that lets you take out compels on credit. You can get a +2 to Power or Control, or for some special effect, by taking a point of Sponsor Debt, and then have to take a compel later w/o getting a FP in exchange. The Sponsor decides if they want to actually give credit in every case. How many points of Debt you can have at one time is up to the GM, but it normally shouldn't get to be more than a few.

All sponsored magicks grant some kind of evothaum; that is, thaumaturgy using the speed and methods of evocation. Some interpretations of the rules say that every use of evothaum requires taking a point of debt, but I usually don't require that unless the PC is trying to do something particularly unique/challenging the scope of their magic.

An expansion of the Sponsored Debt rules many have house-ruled until the Paranet Papers introduced it officially is that you can incur Debt for any kind of roll or purpose, not just casting spells, as long as you're following the Sponsor's agenda. I like this idea as well.

(Perhaps a good homebrew rule might be that you could take a point of debt to use magic when the sponsor would otherwise be neutral to the situation?)

That works and I generally allow it. The whole idea w/ Debt is borrowed power, and getting temporary allowance to cast outside of the Sponsor's agenda is going to come with stings.
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Offline wyvern

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Re: Sponsored Magic Debt
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2015, 07:52:23 PM »
getting temporary allowance to cast outside of the Sponsor's agenda is going to come with stings.
Strings, too, but - especially for hellfire - this seems like a pretty apt typo.

Offline Keryth

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Re: Sponsored Magic Debt
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2015, 10:19:49 PM »
Doesn't Sponsored Magic also allow you to incur debt rather than backlash as well as add to your control and the power of the spell for debt?
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Offline dragoonbuster

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Re: Sponsored Magic Debt
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2015, 01:32:21 AM »
Doesn't Sponsored Magic also allow you to incur debt rather than backlash as well as add to your control and the power of the spell for debt?

Per many house rules, and per Paranet Papers as of its release, you can take Sponsor debt for anything as long as the Sponsor (GM) allows the debt. You could get a +2 on a Fists attack or Empathy assessment if you needed it and the Sponsor was okay with that.
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Offline killking72

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Re: Sponsored Magic Debt
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2015, 02:18:35 AM »
What I can remember is that you can always use your sponsored magic, but any self inflicted consequences take on the nature of the sponsored magic. I don't think that your sponsor has to OK every time you use the magic. Now what I know you have to get an OK on is taking a sponsored debt. The reason I like the idea of sponsor themed consequences is that the sponsor can compel you to do things through the consequence you took along with compels through debt.

Offline dragoonbuster

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Re: Sponsored Magic Debt
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2015, 02:44:22 AM »
What I can remember is that you can always use your sponsored magic, but any self inflicted consequences take on the nature of the sponsored magic. I don't think that your sponsor has to OK every time you use the magic. Now what I know you have to get an OK on is taking a sponsored debt. The reason I like the idea of sponsor themed consequences is that the sponsor can compel you to do things through the consequence you took along with compels through debt.

See Your Story pg 287 under Inherent Limitations:

Quote
In order to gain the benefits
of sponsored magic, the spell you’re casting
must align with the agenda of the sponsor
(page 289) and fit into the theme and scope of the
sponsor’s particular “flavor” of power (see the
types of sponsored magic, page 290). As a result,
sponsored magic is narrower in its focus and
has a sort of implicit approval component, in
exchange for the extra bit of potency and flexibility
it offers.

This is regardless of debt. Debt is going above and beyond the typical arrangement and therefore why you are in "debt" to your sponsor when you get your boost. You are correct in that aspects created from Sponsored Magic, whether a consequence taken or a maneuver made on yourself or another, are always touched/tainted by the Sponsor, which is explained in the book following the paragraph I copied above. 

Sponsored Magic is -4 yet has -1.5 to -2.5 refresh worth of "extras" over taking just regular Channeling + Ritual. Why is that? Because of the above paragraph.
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