Author Topic: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.  (Read 35797 times)

Offline Eldest Gruff

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Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« on: July 27, 2015, 08:35:02 PM »
You can all blame Serack for this one  ;) Doylist Mac

TL;DR version based on the original post I made in Serack's topic that spurred this all on:

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Ultimately I would reiterate my position, I very much do not like the Chosen One trope, especially as it applies to Harry. The trend or parallel's heading in that direction at the moment however bear noting. Ironically the topic above regarding 'out of universe' reasoning for Mac's presence where it didn't seemed to fit spurred a thought that led to my 'in-universe' line of reasoning surrounding Mac and his importance to the story. This list in essence is meant to catalog Mac's appearances within the books as well as the surrounding storyline to illustrate that our favorite barkeep might, in fact, be yet another link in the chain of major parties interested in the Ragged Wizard from the outset and all this time.

Quote from: Our World page 180
What we know about Mac: he opened his pub a few years before Harry Dresden came to Chicago; nobody knows where he’d been before that or what he’d done.

(Thanks to knnn for the above. This is also specifically commented on by Harry in DB but that is for a bit later on in the topic.)

  • Mac set's up shop in Chi-town. Per our series timeline Harry left Eb at about 19 years of age and wandered hermit style for about a year or two before finally settling down in Chicago and beginning work with Nick Christian at Ragged Angel. He is now, conveniently enough, just about at legal drinking age and as we know a creature of habit. A favorite haunt like Mac's, especially as it tailors to the supernatural community, would be just the thing for an intrepid young wizard. More conveniently still, it's close by:

Quote
Where was Harry’s apartment?
In the same mythical four or five blocks where his office was, and where Mac’s is. It’s really dangerous to use an actual location because there’s always that occasional unbalanced person who just decides “Well, this needs to be true to the books, I’m going to burn this house down.” *audience laughter* I knew I was gonna be wrecking the place, so maybe I’ll just kind of make it semi-mythical and that will be healthier for everyone.

  • Happy coincidence or an indicator of well planned forethought? We have a nice Doylist perspective with a hint at a Watsonian one.



Storm Front:
  • Introduces us to Mac's and possibly his place in the story:

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  • Telling us from the outset how much he feels at home in Mac's and it's purpose to the supernatural community at large. This is also Harry's first major case, his grand introduction into the plot at large and how it extends into all corners of the supernatural world. At a most critical juncture he aids Harry directly in his task to confront Victor Sells and save his life:

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  • He gives him his '89 Trans Am without so much as a blink. He warns him about Morgan's presence and then offers his own blunt, passive support. (Note too they shake hands without a single inkling of a practitioner's tingle.) Ultimately as we know Harry triumphs.



Fool Moon:
  • Offer's up Mac's right from the outset as the meeting place between Harry and sometimes apprentice Kim Delany. The conversation surrounds the notion of circles and containment. The notion of 'higher powers' is touched upon for the first time in the their conversation:

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  • Perhaps even more importantly it serves as a critical lesson for Harry:

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  • This was the last time he would see Kim alive. And it's a hard learned lesson for him that will ultimately help shape the way he handles sharing information with those he loves and trusts throughout the rest of the series. He would also have the door opened about his less than saintly mother:

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  • As well as the introduction to his ID (who as we will see later also seems to show up only in books that involve Mac to one degree or another...make of that what you will :P) :
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  • Murphy, Elaine, Susan, Trust, His Mother, the case, Harry's inner turmoil and what makes him tick, lessons and issues he will continue to battle throughout the series are all introduced here.

    And it all started under Mac's roof.



Death Masks:
  • Mac's next comes into play as the meeting place between Ortega and Harry to discuss their duel. It introduces us to the Accords in a more tangible, in-depth way and Mac's as a viable example of Accorded Neutral Ground. On the fringe however we have a great many major plot points for Harry. Coming head to head with Nicodemus and the Denarian's for the first time, he meets Ivy and Kincaid for the first time, (important relationships both), obtain's Thomas' help yet again and learns a bit more about his mother's 'darker' associations. But in a more direct application right outside the bar Harry and Shiro discuss the war:

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  • The bigger picture begins to focus a bit more now, and Harry is perhaps only just starting to get a glimpse of his place in it all. A certain Fallen Angel's shadow also takes up residence in his head...

Apparently these templates actually had character limits...who knew? Blame it on the spoiler quotes counting as text  ::)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 02:04:55 AM by Eldest Gruff »
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Offline Eldest Gruff

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2015, 08:37:43 PM »
Dead Beat:
  • Zombeh's! Well, that's the fun part anyway. Kemmler's work and the Heirs make their appearance for a whole new world of magic that Harry must counter. Cowl and the Reds give us fringe idea's about the Council being betrayed and unseen hands working in the backround. We also get our first hint of a new KoTC in the works. And thanks to Harry's ignorance, we also get our first hints of Nemesis in the overall plot as well as the workings of favors/obligations:

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  • Later as it more directly relates to Mac we have the Warden War Council where we both find out a bit more about Mac and the overall machinations of those self same unseen hands:

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  • Additionally we have round two of the ID:

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  • Harry becomes a Warden, the Council is brought to the brink of destruction, the Reds show us yet more strings connected to this war, he accepts Lash in his own way and Mac is yet again the observer of a major event in Harry's life.




Proven Guilty:
  • Introducing Molly Carpenter, wayward wizard. The assault on Arctis Tor is introduced, Molly of course is gained as an apprentice and Harry's involvement in the world of the Fae only grows. Mac's again serves as the place for a mini summit between Harry, Lily, Fix and Maeve. In it we get this little tidbit about how Harry feels about Mac:
Quote
More importantly, at least to me, Mac was a friend. When I came to his place to eat, I considered myself a guest, and he my host. I'd abide by his declared neutrality out of simple respect, but it was good to know that the Accords were there in the background. Not every member of the supernatural community is as polite and neighborly as me.

  • Mac is by Harry's own admission a relatively important person in his life. And the meat of the issue, which furthers the subtle nods to Nemesis, we have our meeting:

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  • Deeper and deeper the rabbit hole goes. For Harry while his understanding grows, so too does the ocean he is swimming against.



Small Favor:
  • The Denarian's are back and ready for round two and using Lucifer to help. Harry has shed Lash and with it the use of Hellfire. Marcone and more especially Ivy are targeted, Michael is 'retired' and Nic hints further still about his true motivations and the shadow behind everything up to this point. Demonreach and its eventual importance are also introduced. The fallout from Arctis Tor is partially resolved, we are given a hint into Mab's, (and Titania's by her actions thru Summer), states of mind and our favorite Watchman is introduced to gift Harry with the power of Soulfire. MacAnally's direct involvement too is foreshadowing to the eventual anointing of a future KoTC:
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  • Of course this courageous act would only be a precursor to our 'tiny, but fierce' Sergeant showing her worth by later drawing Fidelacchius and having it respond to her as a new Knight.



Changes:
  • Harry Dresden, father and Winter Knight. This book of course lives up to it's reputation as it turns Harry's world apart from the inside out. The War ends in spectacular fashion, Harry orders his own death, kills Susan, saves Maggie and by way of info gathering meets Odin and receives his mother's Gem from Lea, who in turn hints more at Nemesis in her own way. But right from the outset it is Mac whom Harry seeks out when he learns about his daughter:
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  • He offers Harry insight and understanding, he offers more than he ever has in all the books prior with his words. A fitting beginning to a series of days that will shape the DV going forward.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 04:03:16 PM by Eldest Gruff »
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Offline Eldest Gruff

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2015, 08:40:11 PM »
Cold Days:
  • Arguably our most important Mac heavy book. The important events surrounding Harry are his first task as Knight being an order to kill Maeve, we learn how immortals can die, the nature of mantles, what truly lurks within the Well on Demonreach, the Outer Gates and Nemesis are revealed, another Walker is added to the mix and two new Ladies are crowned. Once more Mac's serves as the meeting place for important summits, worldly emotion advice and magical theory:

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  • But even more than all that important discussion, under that self same room we find out more about the barkeep than ever before:
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  • Mac knows the Walkers. He knows Outsiders. We've seen him act with a level of familiarity to many supernatural events or persons but none like this. And we are introduced for the first time to a solid idea that Mac might be something...more. This is of course only furthered later on:

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  • The newest, most important set of events surrounding our 'reborn' Starborn and Mac is a central figure in it all.



Skin Game:
  • Our last and most recent book thus far. Mac is back the standard 'watcher' mentality, being present for and facilitating (chronologically) the first important step Harry takes towards furthering Mab's overall plans. We are introduced to five major holy relics, the general 'destruction' of Nicodemus' network a new Knight in Sir Butters and the idea that an Archangel can give up his own Grace...and the risks such an action might bring. But it is at Mac's where this ability to foil Nicodemus is born:

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We see too of course a deeper relationship between he and Mab further hinted upon.

  • Of course we have the ID making his third appearance, all within Mac-laden books and funnily enough he finds out about his second kid:

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So what then can we gleam from all of this? It has long been debated about what Mac IS or might be. We don't know very much, but we do know what he is not:

Quote
2009 Dayton Book Signing @3:25
Could MacAnally possibly be a son of Dionysus?
He's not a Greek god nor a scion of the gods, I'll tell you that much, but we will probably won't get to see much about MacAnally until the big trilogy at the end. 

Quote
Audience member: Are we going to see anything about Mac in terms of backstory and is Mac a Norse god?

Jim: Are we going to see anything with Mac in backstory and is Mac a Norse god?  No, he’s not a Norse god; yes, we will find out more about him.

Quote
Reddit AMA 5-16-2014
Is Mac more than a human? I think he's not, but there's a growing faction that believes he's either Merlin or some sort of Gray Angel
Mac has never once done anything beyond the capability of a plain old vanilla human being.

But we do know a bit of what he is:

Quote
Sarks: Edit: One last little question, that reading other questions below made me think of. How did Mac get his pub declared neutral ground?
Jim: 6) He filled out the proper paperwork, as cited under the Unseelie Accords. Which is about as involved as a mid-level quest that leads into epic weaponry quests, so it's kind of a story in itself. I mean, /Mab/ designed it. The summary of it is: It's a giant pain in the ass, but anyone can theoretically do it if they have the mildest of supernatural contacts and are determined enough.

Quote
2011 DC signing
Is Mac ever going to speak more than ten words?
Not for a while. He's not a man of many words, as most truly dangerous people are.

And someone, somewhere in life has apparently worked it out to some degree which means ultimately he IS worth the theorizing:

Quote
KC Signing
Are we going to learn more about Mac? His background?

Are we going to learn more about Mac and his background? Yeah, of course, I’m going to keep throwing little bits and things out there. There’s already been somebody who worked it out.  I’ve been contacted by one person who successfully worked it out, and said “Hey, is Mac THIS”, and I have to write back, “I’m not saying he is, and I’m not saying he isn’t.” So, if you want to dig into the clues that are there and figure it out, have fun.

In an attempt to find a Doylist method for explaining Mac we end up with a Watsonian one. Mac 'the Watcher' lives up to that billing at every turn. He is present and involved in just about every major event of change in Harry's life in Chicago. Whether he is Tam Lin, a Grigori or Tran-substantiated Raphael...whether you favor the idea of him as a God of some kind or THE White God himself, his presence is undeniable. Could it be that Harry has truly never been alone all this time? That higher powers and factions have kept a close watch on his involvement since day one? And is Mac yet another party or representative of a group that got in on the ground floor relatively early to be their for our Starborn...to watch, and even sometimes to aid him on his journey? Is it more of a personal interest that a being who so famously has told us he is out decided to take up after getting the measure of Harry's character?

Or is it all just an over-analyzed set of events that just happen to include a prime supernatural hub in the same city?

Personally I feel there is something to this notion about Mac being a 'guardian angel' of sorts for Dresden...my thoughts anyway, not meant to be indicative of one particular race, job or anything. And trust me when I say the hatred I have for the Chosen One trope makes this immensely difficult. But it was too prevalent an idea not to bring to light.

Mac has been there from the outset, the most important events, discussions, magical theory, mysteries, he's been privy or present to it all...directly or indirectly, whether it happens in his bar on on the fringe to Harry, Mac is there. Watching. Hell Harry's own ID only shows up after Harry has been to Mac's in the same book.

The rest as they say, is up to you all to decide.

One fun final point...MacAnally's etymology in the title 'the son of the chief physician' led to a rather interesting door when digging thru google:

The White Christ

Make of THAT lineage idea what you will  ;)
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 09:06:46 PM by Eldest Gruff »
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Offline Argonometra

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2015, 11:48:05 PM »
Your theory is very well cited, but I have one quibble: what is the point of sending someone to watch Dresden if that person can do nothing to influence and/or protect him? If Harry went evil, for example, I doubt Mac could do anything to neutralize him.

Offline Eldest Gruff

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 12:07:27 AM »
Your theory is very well cited, but I have one quibble: what is the point of sending someone to watch Dresden if that person can do nothing to influence and/or protect him? If Harry went evil, for example, I doubt Mac could do anything to neutralize him.

Well Grigori for instance were essentially just that...Watcher Angels. Meant to guide humanity and aid them in their own way. Some stories have them as not even being permitted to aid humanity and when they did they were cast out of Heaven's good graces, (of course plenty of the stories lean more towards the whole forbidden mating aspect as the reason). Angels in general in the DV cannot act until the other side does first, one could argue that's a rather ineffective role at times.

Now i'm not necessarily asserting one way or another Mac IS any of those types of beings but the template exists for beings that are meant to be more passive observers who aid from time to time or even possibly not at all. Mac DOES aid Harry in a number of ways, directly in action or in word and I don't believe I asserted (or certainly didn't mean to) that his watching over Harry was meant to include intervention if he went evil necessarily or any such equivalent.

Just that all in all Mac is there, at someone's behest or his own, to 'look in' on Harry so to speak. How he does or does not handle him is partly up to his discretion I imagine but also at least somewhat beholden to whatever nature he is or turns out to be and the choices that came of it.
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 12:22:47 AM »
I don't think you have to guess where I stand on this.  I'll just say that I don't really get the vibe that Mac, or anyone else other than Lea, has been watching over Harry.  I think the 'Watcher' is more of a description rather than a title; it's more "what he's doing" as opposed to "what his job is/was".  Likewise, I think his position has to be somewhat relevant for Before to know who he is/was.  Your run of the mill Watcher, whether he be Fallen or Chained or Active Duty or Retired, probably wouldn't show up on Before's radar.  We're talking about angels not any different from those watching Michael's house.  Sure, Before might know all of them by name or reputation, since they've all been around for billions of years.  But his digs at Mac seemed personal. 

Offline Eldest Gruff

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2015, 12:58:58 AM »
I don't think you have to guess where I stand on this.  I'll just say that I don't really get the vibe that Mac, or anyone else other than Lea, has been watching over Harry.  I think the 'Watcher' is more of a description rather than a title; it's more "what he's doing" as opposed to "what his job is/was".  Likewise, I think his position has to be somewhat relevant for Before to know who he is/was.  Your run of the mill Watcher, whether he be Fallen or Chained or Active Duty or Retired, probably wouldn't show up on Before's radar.  We're talking about angels not any different from those watching Michael's house.  Sure, Before might know all of them by name or reputation, since they've all been around for billions of years.  But his digs at Mac seemed personal.

And I still tend to follow your line of thought. This just seemed like an area in general that wasn't explored perhaps quite this way...and that who or whatever Mac is, was or will be very much surrounds, (if only recently, i.e. the last twenty years more or less), or has to do with out protagonist ultimately.
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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2015, 01:06:51 AM »
And I still tend to follow your line of thought. This just seemed like an area in general that wasn't explored perhaps quite this way...and that who or whatever Mac is, was or will be very much surrounds, (if only recently, i.e. the last twenty years more or less), or has to do with out protagonist ultimately.
Yeah, but my issue with that is in the M=R theory, Mac is there to specifically watch over DR, seeing as he's invested in it.  He's not really there for Harry.  His presence probably preceded Harry's arrival in Chicago by millennia.  He's been this bald white dude, hanging out with Indian tribes and Cubs fans for 1,500+ years.

Offline knnn

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2015, 01:36:36 AM »
So can we say that Mac opened his bar around the time Harry killed Justin?   If we're going on an Outsider theme, then maybe HHWB made the first move by getting Harry to use Black Magic against Justin.  Then, all the eventual roads lead to Chicago/Demonreach, and so Mac decides to open a pub to intercept.

I'm not saying I'm in love with this theory, but it does kinda fit whatever we got.

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Offline peregrine

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2015, 02:04:59 AM »
So can we say that Mac opened his bar around the time Harry killed Justin?   If we're going on an Outsider theme, then maybe HHWB made the first move by getting Harry to use Black Magic against Justin.  Then, all the eventual roads lead to Chicago/Demonreach, and so Mac decides to open a pub to intercept.

I'm not saying I'm in love with this theory, but it does kinda fit whatever we got.
It's possible, but nothing certain.  Per the timeline, Harry killed Justin four years before he wound up in Chicago.

Offline Lash Dresden

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2015, 02:34:19 AM »
Mac is able to call Harry for help, also (Heorot).  If Mac has been around for millenia, it seems he's likely to know who took Elizabeth (was that her name?), and how dangerous it would be for Harry to face the Grendelkin (although assuming he knew all that, it's likely he knew Sigrun would be involved so Harry wouldn't be going in alone).  Involving himself as he did there (by getting Harry involved) seems sort of non-neutral to me.

(Just tossing this out there - I don't have an opinion on Mac either way.)
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Offline Argonometra

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2015, 02:47:13 AM »
I don't believe I asserted (or certainly didn't mean to) that his watching over Harry was meant to include intervention if he went evil necessarily or any such equivalent.

No, it was just an example I thought up.

probably preceded Harry's arrival in Chicago by millennia.

So is the Our World quote non-canonical, then? It says that he arrived only a few years before Harry.

Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2015, 03:22:56 AM »
No, it was just an example I thought up.

So is the Our World quote non-canonical, then? It says that he arrived only a few years before Harry.
I've never bothered with any of the RPG stuff.  I don't hold any of it as canon.  It's too easy to dismiss as flawed. 

Offline Second Aristh

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2015, 03:29:58 AM »
I've never bothered with any of the RPG stuff.  I don't hold any of it as canon.  It's too easy to dismiss as flawed.
Honestly, from what I've seen the RPG couches most of its speculation as clearly speculation.  I don't recall any statements they try to pass off as fact that aren't detailed in the text.  If anything, they err on the other end of the spectrum and hedge their bets.
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Offline Eldest Gruff

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Re: Watsonian McAnally: the son of the chief physician.
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2015, 03:47:14 AM »
I've never bothered with any of the RPG stuff.  I don't hold any of it as canon.  It's too easy to dismiss as flawed.

Honestly, from what I've seen the RPG couches most of its speculation as clearly speculation.  I don't recall any statements they try to pass off as fact that aren't detailed in the text.  If anything, they err on the other end of the spectrum and hedge their bets.

Luckily in this instance Harry says it himself in DB as also sourced somewhere up there  :P
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