Doylist analysis of the Scooby Gang at the climax of Cold Days

[Serack]

I like the idea Serack.   Frankly, even the first scene with Mac in the bar (where Sharkface smashes in) is a little weird.  Even Harry comments on how this was a mistake.

Still, it seems to me that 1+2+3 might be sufficient motive to introduce Mac in itself.  If you wanted to add something more, I suppose one could also say that Mac might simply be a token "male victim" to balance out Andi, Sarissa, Molly and Justine (and possibly Lily as well).

I guess another possibility is the by showing Mac's healing powers Harry has some sort of secret knowledge he can use in the future.  E.g.  Harry can now safely shoot Mac, knowing that he will eventually heal.   Perhaps this is a way to convince MM Mac that it's "good" Harry, or maybe Harry can show people he's serious by "killing" Mac?

All in all, an interesting analysis.  It might be interesting to apply the same tool on some other scenes.

Excellent alternate Doylist perspective that was much farther out of the box than I had managed to go.  Although I wouldn't count Andi in that list since Butters does the job well enough.

I'm so stoked at the feed back I'm getting here guys. 

[knnn]

Excellent alternate Doylist perspective that was much farther out of the box than I had managed to go.  Although I wouldn't count Andi in that list since Butters does the job well enough.

True, I forgot about Butters.  Still, I don't think you could really have Butters shot that easily. 

[Serack]

True, I forgot about Butters.  Still, I don't think you could really have Butters shot that easily.

I just meant Andi's victimhood was almost identical to Butter's.  They were held for the same reason together earlier in the story.  In my silly mind, I'm canceling out the same term on opposite sides of an equation/ratio

[wizard nelson]

The only reason, which I've said elsewhere that I can think of, is to be able to mirror aurthers injury and healing on Avalon.

[Serack]

The only reason, which I've said elsewhere that I can think of, is to be able to mirror aurthers injury and healing on Avalon.

Please remind me of that story.  It's been a couple years since I have studied those legends in detail.

[knnn]

I just meant Andi's victimhood was almost identical to Butter's.  They were held for the same reason together earlier in the story.  In my silly mind, I'm canceling out the same term on opposite sides of an equation/ratio

Oh, I see your point.  Fair enough.

[wizard nelson]

Please remind me of that story.  It's been a couple years since I have studied those legends in detail.

Off the top of my head(and mostly from the book Lancelot du Lethe) aurther suffers a fatal wound to his stomach, from mordred, I can't recall but it's either from the lance of Longinus or Excalibur I thought, although maybe just mordred poisoned blade. He gets ferried across to Avalon where the three sisters ( it mighta been 4, but I think one died before the end)including morgana and morgwuis were waiting on the shores to heal him, though he could not quite return to the mortal coil. Afterwards Lancelot looses his memory and wanders until his prophised return. Sequal to mad Merlin, both books are quite good, and Merlin the wanderer is a lot of where I get Odin is Merlin from.

[Eldest Gruff]

Not that i'm a fan of the 'Chosen one' trope but, introducing Mac as a supernatural figure (former, current or somewhere in-between) would certainly fit the notion that Harry has been 'watched over' most of his life if not all, by interested outside parties and figures. Consider all of Mac's appearances as a more Watsonian variation:

-SF and FM: Introduction to his bar and character as a sort of 'Supernatural hangout' for Chicago. A place where various important events can and might go down early on. FM also has the last meeting between Harry and Kim Delany, the first apprentice and first 'major' direct loss/death to Harry in the books (discounting off screen deaths or supposed deaths like Malcolm, Justin, Elaine etc.), in Macs.

-Death Masks gives us out first real intro to the Accords and how they might work in the DV. Major potential turning point in the war between the Reds and WC. Additionally first introduction to the Nickleheads. Meeting with Ortega takes place there.

-Dead Beat is the mini 'war council' where Harry becomes a Warden. Mac's again is the meeting spot for a major event in Harry's life, his growing potential reliance on the Council and theirs to him. Introduction to Kemmler, Necromancy and the stronger consequences of the war/possibility of the Council 'rotting' from within.

-Proven Guilty the summit between Winter Lady and Summer Lady occur at Mac's. The idea of Mab being 'crazy' is brought to the forefront, (hand in hand with the first likely examples of Maeve's N-fected lying behavior), as well as Harry's ever increasing involvement in the Fae realm.

-Small Favor surrounds the events that would involve the Denarians once more as well as the Archive in greater detail. Additionally we are introduced to Uriel, and greater insight into the potential 'behind the scenes' machinations at hand. Mac's serves as the confrontation between Tiny and Harry/Murph. Also introduces us to Mac's secret 'Gods beer' brew.

-Changes of course has Mac as the first person Harry confides in about Maggie. He tells Dresden that he will be heading into the 'badlands, it'll be easy to get lost' and calling the situation a 'hard thing'. He offers more insight than he ever has and indeed sets the tone in his own way for everything we will come to know as a Change for Harry.

-Cold Days addressed in this topic to a degree. Following this general line of thought Harry (now the WK, another BIG change) is given insight into Nemesis and one step closer to the real answers behind everything. Mac's of course serves for the meeting between Odin and Harry where he gains some important perspective, the assault by Sharkface/introduction of Mac as a 'Watcher' and of course Mac's presence on the island.

-Skin Game has the flashback meeting between Kringle and Harry there, we are given info on the abilities of Nic and greater insight into a major plan taking place that come to surround the artifacts.

So, from this general perspective pretty much every 'important' step of the way, Mac has been there either on the fringes or directly involved. Either intentionally or by dint of having the most known 'hub' of supernatural community gatherings in Chicago, the Watcher has pretty much been watching Harry's growth all the while.

If I forgot certain books feel free to point them out.

[Serack]

Not that i'm a fan of the 'Chosen one' trope but, introducing Mac as a supernatural figure (former, current or somewhere in-between) would certainly fit the notion that Harry has been 'watched over' most of his life if not all, by interested outside parties and figures. Consider all of Mac's appearances as a more Watsonian variation:

-SF and FM: Introduction to his bar and character as a sort of 'Supernatural hangout' for Chicago. A place where various important events can and might go down early on. FM also has the last meeting between Harry and Kim Delany, the first apprentice and first 'major' direct loss/death to Harry in the books (discounting off screen deaths or supposed deaths like Malcolm, Justin, Elaine etc.), in Macs.

Egad, I just burned the time I had to read the rest of your post (for now) looking for it and didn't find it, but I'll look again later.

I believe there is actually a WoJ or canon reference that Mac opened his bar around the same time Harry moved to Chicago.

[Eldest Gruff]

Egad, I just burned the time I had to read the rest of your post (for now) looking for it and didn't find it, but I'll look again later.

I believe there is actually a WoJ or canon reference that Mac opened his bar around the same time Harry moved to Chicago.

Huh, that does sound a bit familiar.

[wizard nelson]

Huh, that does sound a bit familiar.

i know I've read that one too.

[Griffyn612]

I think Jim wanted to introduce a little more about Mac, and used the attack on the bar, as well as the healing factor later, to do so. However, I think Jim just couldn't extricate Mac easily from the plot once he was involved.

So, Mac Watched the climax.

Honestly, he could have dropped Mac after the bar scene if he'd wanted to.  The premise of "taking people Harry had visited" seemed weak to me.  Harry then risking the lives of presumed innocents by taking them to the island was also out of character.  Justine could have insisted on going to stay with Thomas, just in case the world exploded.  Sarissa could have said that Mab sent her to attend him, seeing as he seemed to be struggling as the WK, and needed some help understanding Winter Law.

Instead, we had suspicion of Mac, who has been nothing but a friend to Harry, all in order to get him to come along with everyone else.

[raidem]

With his place being central to the conspiracy against Nic and and anduriel, I gather he had some beef with nic and anduriel too.  It is obvious that both mab and vadderung trust him.

Some have speculated that Mac may actually be the original Odin.

Time travel hat,
Mac is involved in time travel, parallel realities.  His origin is some sort of out, as in not this particularly limited reAlity.

[Griffyn612]

With his place being central to the conspiracy against Nic and and anduriel, I gather he had some beef with nic and anduriel too.  It is obvious that both mab and vadderung trust him.

Some have speculated that Mac may actually be the original Odin.

Time travel hat,
Mac is involved in time travel, parallel realities.  His origin is some sort of out, as in not this particularly limited reAlity.

Odin showed up at Mac's because it's neutral ground.  I don't think there has to be a connection between Mac and Nico/Anduriel for people to use his establishment as neutral ground.

[megarows]

Off the top of my head(and mostly from the book Lancelot du Lethe) aurther suffers a fatal wound to his stomach, from mordred, I can't recall but it's either from the lance of Longinus or Excalibur I thought, although maybe just mordred poisoned blade. He gets ferried across to Avalon where the three sisters ( it mighta been 4, but I think one died before the end)including morgana and morgwuis were waiting on the shores to heal him, though he could not quite return to the mortal coil. Afterwards Lancelot looses his memory and wanders until his prophised return. Sequal to mad Merlin, both books are quite good, and Merlin the wanderer is a lot of where I get Odin is Merlin from.

That part of the myth always seemed odd to me; Morgan le Fay is directly responsible for Arthur's death as she stole Excalibur's scabbard which granted Arthur immortality.  So this could also be further hinting that like Arthur, Mac is supposed to be immortal.



Arthur on the left, Mordred on the right.