Notes on Optimization

[blackstaff67]

If you want a more badass Morgan writeup, check out Deadmanwalking's. Maybe add some Mental Toughness to it now that that's a thing.

Anyway, optimization-wise Morgan's biggest problems are his number of wasted specializations and his needlessly-high Weapons skill. To strengthen him I'd swap Weapons and Discipline, then replace his current specialization set-up with

Evocation (earth, fire, spirit): +3 earth control, +2 earth power, +1 spirit control
Thaumautrgy: +1 crafting strength

which frees up 3.5 Refinements. I'd invest the savings in a defensive enchanted item, a strong offensive earth focus, and maybe an Intimidation stunt or a secondary focus in crafting or Inhuman Mental Toughness.

Assuming he's got a valid pyramid, he's rocking at least 52 skill points. If his cap is Fantastic he should absolutely take advantage of that, but even if it's not he should probably raise another skill to Superb. Maybe Intimidation or Lore. To make room, I think I'd raise Alertness by 1 and drop Rapport by 2.

Strictly speaking, he'd probably be better off dropping swordsmanship completely and swapping earth for spirit. And some non-Wizard stuff, like 1-Refresh Supernatural Toughness, would be really useful. But I don't want to change his concept.

Thoughts?

  Regarding the "needlessly high Weapons skill":   Summer decorated him for cutting down three RCV Dukes standing between him and the Red King.  I guess it all depends on ow you define "cut down."

[Sanctaphrax]

The novels and the game are not the same. In the game, he'd be much better off blasting those vampires with magic.

As for Fu...

I think he has too many dubiously-useful Stunts.

Read the Surface is unimpressive at the best of times and Empathy not his speciality, so ditch it.

Redirect Attack and Redirected Force are redundant together and neither seems really impressive. Drop one or both.

Good Luck Charms should probably be reflavoured to work off of Contacts rather than Resources.

Best Foot Forward is okay, but I'm not sure it's worth a Refresh.

Forgery and Discreet Investigations look narrow. Are you sure the game will provide you with enough opportunities to use them?

Once you've freed up a bunch of Refresh, you can spend it or not. There's something to be said for having a ton of FP.

As for skills...

A Superb social skill would be nice, but isn't a necessity. Fists and Contacts are pretty good too.

Burglary is generally useless.

Average Endurance is a bit of a no-brainer for someone with Superb Fists. A bit of Discipline would be good too, for surviving mental attacks. And it fits the concept.

So my revised Fu would look something like this...

Skills:
Superb: Fists, Contacts
Great: Deceit, Rapport
Good: Resources, Empathy
Fair: Stealth, Discipline, Survival
Average: Conviction, Presence, Endurance, Alertness, Scholarship
Stunts:
Just A Harmless Merchant (Deceit): +2 to pretend to be a harmless merchant.
Espionage (Contacts): +1 Gather info; +2 with Yingshan.
A Friend To Charm-Sellers (Contacts): Add Good Luck Charms trapping to Contacts. Use it to make Maneuvers and Declarations related to luck, protection against evil, and people’s perceptions of those things.
Footwork (Fists): Use Fists instead of Athletics for all forms of dodging.
Martial Artist (Fists): Use Fists + 1 to make martial arts based knowledge assessments and declarations
Total Refresh Cost:
-3 (Pure Mortal)
Refresh Total:
7

Might tack on Armed Arts, Redirect Attack, Forgery, or Discreet Investigations. Or maybe not.

[toturi]

Regarding the "needlessly high Weapons skill":   Summer decorated him for cutting down three RCV Dukes standing between him and the Red King.  I guess it all depends on ow you define "cut down."

Another thing to note is that the high Weapons skill enables him to take down targets without needing to cast a single spell if he needs to do so. IIRC, the White Court had stuff that enabled them to be immune to spells, I do not doubt that Red Court would have had something similar.

[Taran]

Another thing to note is that the high Weapons skill enables him to take down targets without needing to cast a single spell if he needs to do so. IIRC, the White Court had stuff that enabled them to be immune to spells, I do not doubt that Red Court would have had something similar.

And let's him deal with 'human' casualties like fine thralls, renfeilds.  Which is especially important when dealing with sorcerers who are practicing mind-control, since he can't use magic on them.

Regarding Fu:

I actually like some of the changes you've recommended. 
-Endurance, I waffled with.  .  I'd thought about taking a stunt that would let me base his stress track on Fists or Deceit, but He's a 70 year old man.  I thought it fitting to leave him with low endurance.
-Discipline is a good catch, though.  I just thought ex-ninja would have still have burglary.

Stunts
-I haven't had a chance to use the charms stunt yet...because of the situation he's in.  Basing it off contacts would be better, but I don't know if it would change the concept.  I guess, I could say the charms he's selling he's gotten from 'reliable' contacts.
- Forgery is being used quite a bit...
-redirect force and attack:  I didn't see him as an offensive character.  Those two stunts let him do maneuvers or attacks.  Mostly, I wanted to play with them.  I may drop one eventually
-I may get rid of read the surface.  But it, generally, gives you two empathy rolls where you'd normally get one.

Another character:  why don't you choose someone from the paranet papers that particularly annoyed you. (stat-wise) 

[Sanctaphrax]

Thing is, with a bit of creativity earth magic can handle magic-immune and Law-protected targets. It can throw mundane objects with gravity, take opponents out by burying them instead of killing them, and so on.

And just taking Superb Weapons and a Warden sword isn't enough to handle the kind of opposition that Morgan is likely to face. For example, he'd need a much bigger investment in Weapons to cut down multiple high-end RCVs. Just look at the numbers: the sword is weapon 6 a limited number of times. A strong RCV probably has Supernatural Toughness and Good+ Endurance. He needs to hit by a margin of 5 just to inflict a mild. With accuracy 5 against a defence roll of 6 or so, that's not easy to pull off. And he can't chip away with repeated attacks because the sword has limited uses and his defence isn't that great.

-Endurance, I waffled with.  .  I'd thought about taking a stunt that would let me base his stress track on Fists or Deceit, but He's a 70 year old man.  I thought it fitting to leave him with low endurance.

It is fitting. But optimization-wise, keeping a 2-box stress track on a Submerged fighter isn't a good call.

- Forgery is being used quite a bit...
-redirect force and attack:  I didn't see him as an offensive character.  Those two stunts let him do maneuvers or attacks.  Mostly, I wanted to play with them.  I may drop one eventually
-I may get rid of read the surface.  But it, generally, gives you two empathy rolls where you'd normally get one.

Glad to hear.

I can see an argument for keeping Redirect Attack. But he's already pretty good at generating Aspects, and having both is just not efficient.

I don't think it works that way. And even if it does, you're probably better off making a Rapport roll. Why use the lower skill more than you have to?

(Of course, you were deliberately sub-optimizing. So really this is all moot.)

Another character:  why don't you choose someone from the paranet papers that particularly annoyed you. (stat-wise)

Outside of sloppy editing, "plot devices", and people using mental evocation attacks, I don't recall being annoyed by the stat blocks.

But I do wish the Russian PCs were a bit stronger, so I guess I'll do them next.

PS: If anyone else has ideas for strengthening Morgan or Fu or whoever, I'd like to hear them.

[Taran]

I don't think it[Empathy] works that way. And even if it does, you're probably better off making a Rapport roll. Why use the lower skill more than you have to?

Well,  you can make an empathy assessment 'after 10 minutes'.  Which is a conversation.  So, in 11 minutes, you can make 2 assessments.  Or make one assessment by the time people are done introducing themselves and exchanging pleasantries.  Empathy can be done quietly without needing to say anything, so it's a nice, low-key way of gaining aspects while rapport requires you to be active in the conversation.

I'd like to raise it, but I don't want to lower rapport or deceit...but  you may be right about the stunt...

[Sanctaphrax]

Empathy aside, here's my take on the Russians and their weaknesses.

Lena's Lawbreaker is a point of wasted Refresh, because if she uses it she'll have to take another point of Lawbreaker and become an NPC. Plus, her Refinements are ill-spent, and I'm not a fan of Pointed Performance. Thaumaturgy is nice, and I can see uses for Performance, but she's distressingly ineffective in combat and not great socially either.

Sveta's Stunts don't go as far as they should since she's foolishly taken a bunch of them for low skills. And some of them are just kinda lame. Splitting her combat style between Guns and Weapons doesn't help. Great Endurance doesn't do much that Good Endurance wouldn't, and I wish she was more effective socially.

Kostya wastes 4 Refresh on Sponsored Magic that he doesn't have the skills to use. He's overspecialized in social stuff, and a liability in a fight. Personal Magnetism is kinda meh, Infuriate sucks on someone with Average Intimidation.

Lara splits her elements, weakening her. Lawbreaker is a wasted point of Refresh. Her Stunt is okay, but its limitation seems tighter than necessary and she's so tight on Refresh that I'd be tempted to drop it. It would be good to raise her casting skills.

Does that sound like a fair summary to y'all?

I'll probably write some new statblocks for them in a day or two.

[Sanctaphrax]

Okay, here are some revised and upgraded statblocks for the Russian PP crew.

Not transcribing the Aspects or backstories. That's too much like piracy.

Comments and suggestions would be appreciated.

Lena

You really shouldn't need a stunt to do ordinary maneuvers with Performance. And if you're gonna Lawbreak, you shouldn't half-ass it.

Skills:
Superb: Performance
Great: Lore, Discipline, Rapport
Good: Conviction, Empathy, Resources
Fair: Alertness, Deceit, Contacts
Average: Presence, Survival, Athletics
Stunts:
Virtuoso Violinist (Performance): +2 to play the violin.
Powers:
Thaumaturgy [-3]
Lawbreaker (5th) [-2]
Ghost Speaker [-1]
Magic:
Thaumaturgy: +1 ectomancy control
Enchanted Items: Ghostly guardian bound into an earring (4-shift block against physical attack, 3 times/session), angry ghost bound into a violin (weapon 4, aimed with Performance, 3 times/session)
Total Refresh Cost:
-7
Refresh Total:
3

Sveta

Went all-in on Guns here. Weapons can go hang. Made her scary because I wanted her to be socially useful.

Skills:
Superb: Guns
Great: Athletics, Survival, Intimidation
Good: Endurance, Alertness, Lore
Fair: Conviction, Weapons, Stealth
Average: Discipline, Fists, Presence
Stunts:
Make It Count (Guns): +2 stress with her shotgun.
I Have Just The Shell (Guns): Use Guns to know weaknesses and have shells that exploit them.
Hunter (Survival): +2 to track.
Stare Down (Intimidation): Use Intimidation for social defence.
Lucky Dodge (Athletics): Spend 1 FP for +4 to a dodge roll once per roll.
Total Refresh Cost:
-3 (Pure Mortal)
Refresh Total:
7

Kostya

Was tempted to give him Incite Emotion. He has the leftover Refresh for it. As for Contacts, I figure someone who's been around enough to get a long list of enemies is likely to have a long list of friends and acquaintances.

Skills:
Superb: Deceit
Great: Rapport, Empathy, Contacts
Good: Presence, Athletics, Alertness
Fair: Discipline, Investigation, Weapons
Average: Endurance, Conviction, Burglary
Stunts:
Annoyingly Tricky (Deceit): Use Deceit to provoke people.
Confidence Tricks (Deceit): +1 to distract and pick pockets, may perform complex distractions.
Powers:
Glamours [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch (Cold iron) [+3]
Total Refresh Cost:
-5
Refresh Total:
5

Lara

The stunt might not be strictly optimal, but I think it suits her concept. And with her increased Empathy the old one is a bit less useful now.

Skills:
Superb: Discipline
Great: Investigation, Conviction, Lore
Good: Empathy, Endurance, Alertness
Fair: Athletics, Deceit, Stealth
Average: Presence, Scholarship, Contacts
Stunts:
Keeping Secrets (Discipline): Use Discipline to hide information and defend against being read.
Powers:
Evocation [-3]
Thaumaturgy [-3]
The Sight [-1]
Soulgaze [-0]
Wizard's Constitution [-0]
Refinement [-1]
Magic:
Evocation (Fire, Air, Spirit): +2 spirit power, +1 spirit control
Thaumaturgy: +1 crafting strength
Foci: Walking Stick (+1 offensive spirit power and control)
Enchanted Items: Shield Amulet (5-shift block against physical attacks, 3 uses/session), 2 potion slots (strength 5)
Total Refresh Cost:
-9
Refresh Total:
1

[Sanctaphrax]

Does nobody have anything to say about that?

[toturi]

Does nobody have anything to say about that?

I've been trying to lay my hands on a hardcopy PP. I'm old fashioned that way. So without knowing the Aspects and what they can be Compelled for...

Here's what I got.

Why Performance as Lena's apex skill? She doesn't have any stunts that allow her to use Performance for any type (Mental, Social, Physical) combat.

[Sanctaphrax]

Because that was her apex skill in the original and I didn't have a compelling reason to change it. Her Great skills cover her magical and social bases reasonably well. And when it comes to aiming enchanted item attacks, Performance is as good as any other skill.

If you have any suggestions for strengthening these guys further, I'm listening. I don't want to stray too far from the original concepts, though.

I actually like these guys a lot, concept-wise, but I think their PP writeups are problematically weak. If some newbie decides to use one while the other players are building their own characters, they might find themself disappointingly ineffective.

[fictionfan]

If you want a more badass Morgan writeup, check out Deadmanwalking's. Maybe add some Mental Toughness to it now that that's a thing.

Anyway, optimization-wise Morgan's biggest problems are his number of wasted specializations and his needlessly-high Weapons skill. To strengthen him I'd swap Weapons and Discipline, then replace his current specialization set-up with

Evocation (earth, fire, spirit): +3 earth control, +2 earth power, +1 spirit control
Thaumautrgy: +1 crafting strength

which frees up 3.5 Refinements. I'd invest the savings in a defensive enchanted item, a strong offensive earth focus, and maybe an Intimidation stunt or a secondary focus in crafting or Inhuman Mental Toughness.

Assuming he's got a valid pyramid, he's rocking at least 52 skill points. If his cap is Fantastic he should absolutely take advantage of that, but even if it's not he should probably raise another skill to Superb. Maybe Intimidation or Lore. To make room, I think I'd raise Alertness by 1 and drop Rapport by 2.

Strictly speaking, he'd probably be better off dropping swordsmanship completely and swapping earth for spirit. And some non-Wizard stuff, like 1-Refresh Supernatural Toughness, would be really useful. But I don't want to change his concept.

Thoughts?

I think he has such high weapon skill because he worries about breaking the first law.  If he uses magic he has to hold back, but if he uses his sword he can chop off heads all day and unlike Dresden most of the people he fights are humans.

[Sanctaphrax]

Again, that concern doesn't translate so well from novel series to RPG. Similarly, the "limited number of skill points" thing doesn't translate so well from RPG to novel. It's not like Jim Butcher has a limited points budget for his characters.

I'm not trying to say that the Morgan writeup is bad, or anything like that. Just that it's weaker than it could be with that Refresh and skill total. I'm using it as an example to explain what I think about optimizing within this system.

[InFerrumVeritas]

I think it's valid to note that there's optimization within a concept too.  So for Donald Morgan, that concept is "Warlock Hunter" essentially.  Given that, I'd build him with the idea that his excellent evocation skills center around maneuvers and counterspells rather than direct attacks.  For direct attacks, he'd use his sword.  To optimize this, I'd have a way of him using his sword without the Weapons skill (stunt to replace with Discipline or Athletics, rewrite of the Warden's Sword as an IOP, or something).  But yeah, swords and magic are a sub-optimal combination systematically.  In the context of the novels, it's one that we see.

[blackstaff67]

Esmerelda of the Eebs needs a rewrite as well, given a substandard build even I spotted.