Author Topic: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]  (Read 67162 times)

Offline Mr. Death

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He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« on: June 18, 2015, 02:35:04 PM »
So I just realized something about the Hades sequence in Skin Game. Nicodemus and his crew were doomed the moment Harry beat them to the treasures. One of the most well known supernatural properties of the Spear of Longinus is that whoever is holding it is either literally invulnerable, or otherwise can't be beaten in battle.

And Harry has the head of the spear up his sleeve the whole time.


Curator's edit below:  -Serack
This topic has some great discussion, generally about what the items recovered from Hades' vault are.  Some of the highlights I'll link below.

Quantus shows evidence of what the "Knife" could look like
Eldest Gruff's (EG) equating the "5 items" from Hades' vault to 5 items of significance in the Passion of the White Christ.
Excellent Guesses by EG and Phariah about what the items do.

Somewhere around page 5 or 6 the topic morphs into a discussion of how mantles transferred, and specifically about the dragon Michael killed. I wouldn't provide links except megarows did an excellent writeup of the origins of the queens/Hecate here and an excellent follow up from EG here

For further discussion on the Relics see this topic
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 05:23:49 PM by Serack »
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Offline Quantus

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 02:38:43 PM »
So I just realized something about the Hades sequence in Skin Game. Nicodemus and his crew were doomed the moment Harry beat them to the treasures. One of the most well known supernatural properties of the Spear of Longinus is that whoever is holding it is either literally invulnerable, or otherwise can't be beaten in battle.

And Harry has the head of the spear up his sleeve the whole time.
Assuming it takes nothing additional to activate?  Yup :)


Im still hoping he mounts in on his Wizard's staff, to get a cool magic spear like Odin
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Offline Lawgiver

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 02:45:28 PM »
Harry seems pretty well versed in occult lore. He probably grabbed the spearhead just on that contingency; wouldn't hurt and might help.
"Sufficiently advanced technology," my ass.

Offline peregrine

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 02:52:56 PM »
Assuming it was the Lance, and assuming it really does grant invulnerability/undefeatability.

Offline XeroOmega

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 02:53:44 PM »
Isn't dumb luck Harry's calling card? Harry was likely not considering anything other than keeping them out of Nic's hands, the only thing Nic claimed he was after was the Grail, so that's all he needed to fulfill Mab's bargain.

Offline Tami Seven

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 02:54:09 PM »
How did he keep it from falling out?
War Cry -
"Thomas doesn't fight back, not even for an instant. In the end, it's not common sense that pulls me back from the brink, or even fear of being devoured by the Shoggoth....It's the look of unshakeable trust in my Brother's eyes, even as my hands tighten around his throat."

Offline Mr. Death

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2015, 02:54:43 PM »
Assuming it was the Lance, and assuming it really does grant invulnerability/undefeatability.
Well, the fake shroud had power just because people believed in it, remember. I could see widespread belief adding or modifying the spear's "actual" powers, whatever they may be.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline XeroOmega

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 03:13:51 PM »
According to the text of Skin Game, Hades is quite the collector, and as any collector would, he would value authenticity. He obviously had the resources to verify.

Offline raidem

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 04:22:10 PM »
Quote
According to the text of Skin Game, Hades is quite the collector, and as any collector would, he would value authenticity. He obviously had the resources to verify.

It's authentic yes, but that isn't the issue.  The issue is whether or not speculation is correct that it IS the spear of Longinus.  It doesn't say what exactly it is in the book except that it was a knife.  And knifes aren't spears exactly, only if its the tip of said spear.
"That's it???  It's really that simple? 
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Offline Quantus

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 06:02:28 PM »
It's authentic yes, but that isn't the issue.  The issue is whether or not speculation is correct that it IS the spear of Longinus.  It doesn't say what exactly it is in the book except that it was a knife.  And knifes aren't spears exactly, only if its the tip of said spear.
This is true.  The vault was Vault 7, housing artifacts of "western religious significance" and the contents were all described as christian directly, or were general art from periods dominated by christian imagery.  The pedestal contained 5 artifacts, only two of which are explicitly identified (Grail and Shroud); the Crown of Thorns is kinda obvious though.  That's 3/5 of the artifacts being Crusafixion-related, with the placard easily fitting as well (but being an extremely generic object so its hard to confirm without knowing the writing on it).  The Spear is the only bladed object I know of related to that field, but it could be something else with a connection not part of the popular myth (something specific to the DV perhaps). 

That all being said, my entirely doylistic logic is that when Jim took a Bladesmithing workshop a few years back his brain created this thing, which sure looks like how I picture the thing in Hades
(click to show/hide)

Curator's edit:  Here's the link to the image from the original website.  Please do not post it as an image on the forums, as that is bad etiquette without hosting it somewhere first. 

And here is the main page of that website -Serack
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 06:45:26 PM by Serack »
<(o)> <(o)>
        / \
      (o o)
   \==-==/


“We’re all imaginary friends to one another."

"An entire life, an entire personality, can be permanently altered by just one sentence." -An Accidental Villain

Offline Mira

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 06:07:44 PM »
Assuming it was the Lance, and assuming it really does grant invulnerability/undefeatability.
  Or that merely holding it was enough, as in knowing that just holding it gave one invulnerability.. Nothing is usually that simple..

Offline namkcas

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 06:11:40 PM »
I think you need to find a public version of your spoiler image.

Offline Quantus

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 06:27:10 PM »
I think you need to find a public version of your spoiler image.
Not working?  Damn.  photobucket's stopped working in the last few weeks, and Id hoped Id gotten Drive to do it.  There's a link around here somewhere. one sec
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Offline Snark Knight

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 08:51:45 PM »
I'd wondered whether the fact that he had that up his sleeve when he threw the hilt of Fidelacchius to his friends contributed to the blade's transformation.

Offline Quantus

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Re: He Couldn't Lose [SG Spoilers]
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2015, 10:27:08 PM »
I'd wondered whether the fact that he had that up his sleeve when he threw the hilt of Fidelacchius to his friends contributed to the blade's transformation.
Id have to check but Im pretty sure it was in his pocket by then.  He'd done an awful lot of physical activity since then, individually fought and defeated two different Denarians, then got thrown onto horse-back
<(o)> <(o)>
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      (o o)
   \==-==/


“We’re all imaginary friends to one another."

"An entire life, an entire personality, can be permanently altered by just one sentence." -An Accidental Villain