The New Soulfire Refresh Cost

[killking72]

I have a couple questions that I haven't been able to get a consensus on.

1) Do multiple sponsored magics all get the +2 bonus from having evocation and thaumaturgy

2) Is Soulfire secretly still -5 refresh?

2a) Is soulfire being a "-3 refresh sponsored magic "(PP 251) before or after said +2 bonus from evocation and thaumaturgy, or does it even get the bonus at all since on PP 251 it doesn't say you get a bonus by default.

2b) The book says "you can't even take it[soulfire] if you don't have some kind of mortal magic to begin with"(PP 251). So what happens if you have only evocation or thaumaturgy which is "some type" of mortal magic? The book says it's a -3 sponsored magic, so would the cost go up to -4?

[Theogony_IX]

Here's my take.

1) Yes each sponsored magic gets its own cost reduction based on Evocation and Thaumaturgy.

2) No, it only costs 3 refresh.

2a) It is less a sponsored magic now and more of an upgrade to magic.  It's like a weird, thematic combination of refinement and mental toughness.  I would divorce it from sponsored magic in my mind and treat it as it's own sort of spellcasting power.

2b)  It would not go up to -4 if you only have one of either Evocation or Thaumaturgy.  It stays at -3 as the base cost no matter what spellcasting power(s) you have taken.

[killking72]

Well here's the curious thing about it being -3. Back on page PP 248 (right side 4th paragraph) it says if you want to be a practitioner with ritual, channeling, and a sponsored magic, then that'll be -8 refresh. That's all fine and dandy. -2 ritual, -2 channeling, and -4 for generic sponsored magic. Then right below that it says if you have soulfire instead of generic sponsored magic then you'll be at -9 refresh. -2 ritual, -2 channeling, and -5 for soulfire.

[Sanctaphrax]

Swampjack spends 3 Refresh to get Soulfire on top of Channelling (Spirit).

Harry spends 3 Refresh to get Soulfire on top of Evocation and Thaumaturgy, plus 2 Refresh for more Soulfire stress, plus 1 Refresh for Demonreach Sponsored Magic.

So it looks like Theogony's right.

Probably best to ignore what it says on page 248, especially since giving people no price break for Channelling/Ritual is pretty dubious balance-wise. Plus, it's basically just wrong to say that Sponsored Magic and other spellcasting will pretty much always cost at least 8.

EDIT: Actually, on second thought it's not so bad from a balance perspective. No discount means more items, after all, so it's basically a mandatory Refinement.

[killking72]

EDIT: Actually, on second thought it's not so bad from a balance perspective. No discount means more items, after all, so it's basically a mandatory Refinement.

Are you talking about when you take a sponsored magic at -4 because you don't have evocation or thaumaturgy you get 4 FI slots?

[Sanctaphrax]

Yeah. Channelling plus Sponsored Magic might be 6 Refresh, but it's also 6 focus slots. Which is what you'd get if you got the discount, and spent the extra Refresh on more items.

[moireth]

So Soulfire gives you focus item slots now? How many focus item slots does it give you?

[Sanctaphrax]

I was talking about Sponsored Magic in general.

As for Soulfire...I don't think the writeup makes it clear one way or the other. But Harry doesn't seem to get any focus slots from it, and it'd be pretty amazingly powerful if it did give 4 focus slots like other Sponsored Magics, so I think it's best to assume it gives no slots.

[Chee]

Also, Soulfire is still -5 according to p 248. It's priced wrong on Swampjack's sheet and discounted on Harry's due to both Evo and Thau