Who Attacked Arctis Tor, and Why

[Griffyn612]

Remind me where in the text it says he was obliged to show up ?

Right here, not that it'll do us any good.

Kringle winked at me. “The Winter Knight called for me in his official capacity as an agent of the Winter Court. Mab has the right to summon Kringle. If she’d called for Vadderung, I’d have told her to get in line.”

Butcher, Jim (2014-05-27). Skin Game: A Novel of the Dresden Files (p. 371). Penguin Group US. Kindle Edition.

[King Ash]

Agreed. There is woj that mab is too smart to attempt to abuse the relationship.

On the other hand there is also a quote that no knows who would win in a fight between Odin and Mab, but that everyone knows it is coming IIRC. So presumably either Mab is eventually going to abuse the relationship, or maybe Odin has plans that don't include Mab being around.

[Griffyn612]

On the other hand there is also a quote that no knows who would win in a fight between Odin and Mab, but that everyone knows it is coming IIRC. So presumably either Mab is eventually going to abuse the relationship, or maybe Odin has plans that don't include Mab being around.

Never heard that one.  Can't even see how Odin could hope to stand up to Mab. 

[King Ash]

Never heard that one.  Can't even see how Odin could hope to stand up to Mab.

I don't remember where it is, but it was within the last couple of years.
Some people argued that as Odin is a god renowned for foresight that he could plan something that Mab couldn't counter, my theory was that we haven't seen Odin at full power, only as Kringle and Vadderung. There is another WOJ that Vadderung enjoys being in the mortal world, subject to people trying to take him out. So my idea is that Vadderung is Odin without his Odin or Kringle powers so that he can live in the mortal world without causing cracks in reality, kinda like Ferrovax boasting that his full form would crack the earth.

[raidem]

Yeah, foresight gives odin the edge.  Mab would lose a very resourceful vassal too.

[Griffyn612]

I don't remember where it is, but it was within the last couple of years.
Some people argued that as Odin is a god renowned for foresight that he could plan something that Mab couldn't counter, my theory was that we haven't seen Odin at full power, only as Kringle and Vadderung. There is another WOJ that Vadderung enjoys being in the mortal world, subject to people trying to take him out. So my idea is that Vadderung is Odin without his Odin or Kringle powers so that he can live in the mortal world without causing cracks in reality, kinda like Ferrovax boasting that his full form would crack the earth.

I'll agree that Vadderung seems to be a lesser form of Odin.  But I'm not sure they're so easily divided.  We saw Vadderung at the seat of his power, and Vadderung's power is directly tied to Odin.  He has Odin's ravens, he has his troops, he uses Odin's eye as his symbol.  It seems more like Odin became Vadderung as his power waned.  He's not what he once was.  He's probably still packing more than what we've seen, but as we've seen him take the field with Gungnir, I think he's still definitely what's left of Odin.

[Acalanthis]

I'll agree that Vadderung seems to be a lesser form of Odin.  But I'm not sure they're so easily divided.  We saw Vadderung at the seat of his power, and Vadderung's power is directly tied to Odin.  He has Odin's ravens, he has his troops, he uses Odin's eye as his symbol.  It seems more like Odin became Vadderung as his power waned.  He's not what he once was.  He's probably still packing more than what we've seen, but as we've seen him take the field with Gungnir, I think he's still definitely what's left of Odin.

Hang on a moment.  Does anyone remember the exact quote from Cold Days?

Kringle says something to the effect of "Before Halloween, I'm not Santa; afterwards, I am."  Maybe his Mantle is dependent on when in the year it is?

[Griffyn612]

Hang on a moment.  Does anyone remember the exact quote from Cold Days?

Kringle says something to the effect of "Before Halloween, I'm not Santa; afterwards, I am."  Maybe his Mantle is dependent on when in the year it is?

He shows up as Kringle in the spring in SKIN GAME, and as Odin in November in CHANGES.

[Acalanthis]

He shows up as Kringle in the spring in SKIN GAME, and as Odin in November in CHANGES.

...well, balls.

It's a shame that it isn't anything as simple as Mab swapping out personas depending on the occasion.

[King Ash]

I'll agree that Vadderung seems to be a lesser form of Odin.  But I'm not sure they're so easily divided.  We saw Vadderung at the seat of his power, and Vadderung's power is directly tied to Odin.  He has Odin's ravens, he has his troops, he uses Odin's eye as his symbol.  It seems more like Odin became Vadderung as his power waned.  He's not what he once was.  He's probably still packing more than what we've seen, but as we've seen him take the field with Gungnir, I think he's still definitely what's left of Odin.

We saw him at the seat of his power in Midgard I think, Odin's seat of power was in Valhalla as far as I know.

It may be that Odin can only dwell in Asgard, and that if he wants to dwell on earth for long, he needs to leave behind most of his power. Thus Vadderung.

[Eldest Gruff]

We saw him at the seat of his power in Midgard I think, Odin's seat of power was in Valhalla as far as I know.

It may be that Odin can only dwell in Asgard, and that if he wants to dwell on earth for long, he needs to leave behind most of his power. Thus Vadderung.

The only being with location restrictions appear to be Naagloshii. More likely its that his power, like most all the other gods, waned as belief stopped.

[brighellac]

The only being with location restrictions appear to be Naagloshii. More likely its that his power, like most all the other gods, waned as belief stopped.

I think there's a range of location restrictions and effects.

Odin said he was the most powerful in his office in changes.

Naag have an energy bleed when they leave their home

DR has to bargain to move his consciousness beyond the island.

A threshold's power and the wards based on it are restricted to that home.

[Eldest Gruff]

I think there's a range of location restrictions and effects.

Odin said he was the most powerful in his office in changes.

Naag have an energy bleed when they leave their home

DR has to bargain to move his consciousness beyond the island.

A threshold's power and the wards based on it are restricted to that home.

Odin was at the focus of his power, just like Arctis Tor is for Mab or Demonreach for Harry...its their sanctums. But Naagloshii, unless otherwise provided for, steadily lose power when away from their native lands. The other three would not, they just wouldn't be at their absolute most powerful 24/7 away from those places that's all. So its still very different.

[King Ash]

Odin was at the focus of his power, just like Arctis Tor is for Mab or Demonreach for Harry...its their sanctums. But Naagloshii, unless otherwise provided for, steadily lose power when away from their native lands. The other three would not, they just wouldn't be at their absolute most powerful 24/7 away from those places that's all. So its still very different.

WOJ says that powerful beings only send a whisper of their power through to the mortal world so that they don't damage it. We see from Mab that her continued presence makes winter stick around longer, and that Ferro isn't in his true form because it would crack the earth.
Vadderungs place of power was in the mortal world, aka Midguard, but myth puts his place of power as Valhalla in Asgard (ie part of the Never Never). So if Odin is truely powerful to challenge Mab, and we know that the Erlking leading the Wyld Hunt with a few Denarians haven't got a chance in hell against her, than he can't be on earth at full power or he would be impacting the world in a discernable way. Remember that even Shagnasty disrupted the world enough for Harry to sense it and Odin should be vastly more powerful than it.

[Eldest Gruff]

WOJ says that powerful beings only send a whisper of their power through to the mortal world so that they don't damage it. We see from Mab that her continued presence makes winter stick around longer, and that Ferro isn't in his true form because it would crack the earth.
Vadderungs place of power was in the mortal world, aka Midguard, but myth puts his place of power as Valhalla in Asgard (ie part of the Never Never). So if Odin is truely powerful to challenge Mab, and we know that the Erlking leading the Wyld Hunt with a few Denarians haven't got a chance in hell against her, than he can't be on earth at full power or he would be impacting the world in a discernable way. Remember that even Shagnasty disrupted the world enough for Harry to sense it and Odin should be vastly more powerful than it.

Beings like the Mothers or the Archangels sure, that's why the former don't make a habit of wandering earth, and the latter have rules governing their strength to keep the earth 'whole'. Shagnasty disrupted the immediate area around him ON Demonreach, which is an island designed to lock him up. The disruption was it sensing a powerful, evil force. Odin may not be at the very apex of his strength in say Mac's pub, neither would Mab. But they could still swat down Shaggy in a heartbeat from their barstools.

Personally I do not see Odin as a pound for pound challenge to Mab, not as he is anymore. His strength is cunning, resourcefulness and an information network second to pretty much none. Does he still come as an incredibly formidable challenge absolutely, could he give her a rub for a bit, sure I wouldn't count the All-Father out. But in true raw power terms, probably not.